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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    260

    Default Main Lounge converted to 4th bedroom?

    Have a lovely architect built home.

    Its 3 bed + study.

    However it has a family room down the other end of the Kitchen along with a second lounge. Could I use the "Family Room" as a lounge, thats what the prior owner has done, with a 70" TV on the wall and a big sofa, but then another TV in the other room "Lounge"

    The other "Lounge" room would make a large 4th bedroom, all rooms are large. I cant turn the study into a room as its back wall is the kitchen area.

    The easiest way to convert to 4th bedroom is simply put a doorway on this main plush carpeted lounge, then use the lounge area in the kitchen, dining, lounge area as the main lounge.

    Ive seen a lot of homes that dont have a cinema type lounge and have the lounge in the kitchen room, so Im wondering would this be ok? I know families like space but there is enough room for 4 people in the "FamilyRoom" to be used as a lounge, plus the indoor outdoor flow.

    The house is 10yo, no expense spared on materials use, and things like heatpumps, HRV, Gas heating, high quality plush carpet and hard wood floors.

    Appreciate some opinions. Thank you :-)
    Last edited by OnTheMove; 06-01-2020 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,691

    Default

    Some people would suggest that room is large enough to be divided in two - giving you a 5 bedroom rental.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kane View Post
    Some people would suggest that room is large enough to be divided in two - giving you a 5 bedroom rental.
    was just thinking the same thing.

    You would need to assess who your target market is for this type of property before deciding on converting a 3 br into a 4 or 5 br house.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheMove View Post
    Have a lovely architect built home.

    Its 3 bed + study.

    However it has a family room down the other end of the Kitchen along with a second lounge. Could I use the "Family Room" as a lounge, thats what the prior owner has done, with a 70" TV on the wall and a big sofa, but then another TV in the other room "Lounge"

    The other "Lounge" room would make a large 4th bedroom, all rooms are large. I cant turn the study into a room as its back wall is the kitchen area.

    The easiest way to convert to 4th bedroom is simply put a doorway on this main plush carpeted lounge, then use the lounge area in the kitchen, dining, lounge area as the main lounge.

    Ive seen a lot of homes that dont have a cinema type lounge and have the lounge in the kitchen room, so Im wondering would this be ok? I know families like space but there is enough room for 4 people in the "FamilyRoom" to be used as a lounge, plus the indoor outdoor flow.

    The house is 10yo, no expense spared on materials use, and things like heatpumps, HRV, Gas heating, high quality plush carpet and hard wood floors.

    Appreciate some opinions. Thank you :-)
    it is not a change of use under the building act. You can do the work under schedule 1. (update council file later if you want?) Some buildings have resource consents that limit bedroom numbers and occupants, Septic tanks may limit bedrooms also.

    It can also be converted back later so what is the problem?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John the builder View Post
    it is not a change of use under the building act. You can do the work under schedule 1. (update council file later if you want?) Some buildings have resource consents that limit bedroom numbers and occupants, Septic tanks may limit bedrooms also.

    It can also be converted back later so what is the problem?
    That was my thinking, its currently about a 8fft gap, so it feels open to dining and kitchen etc. But putting up Gib Rock and Door, Ive done that 100 times before, and pulling it down again, no issue.

    I was just curious as to what you thought about it being a bedroom and using that "Family ROom" as a lounge, current owners have it set up as a lounge but also have the other lounge, feels like a waste of space. Having a lounge down the other end of a Kitchen though is what Im wondering if a 4bed family would not be keen on?

    TThing is it has such a massive deck and access from 4 slider doors. Along with a Pohutukawa to hang a tire swing on etc, very safe for place for smaller kids.

    I could put a folding door across that 8ft gap and that would leave the tenants the choice of whether to use as a lounge or a bedroom? Only issue is it has a gas fire place installed but I suppose I could just turn it off, so children cannot access it.
    Last edited by OnTheMove; 07-01-2020 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't believe the Hype View Post
    was just thinking the same thing.

    You would need to assess who your target market is for this type of property before deciding on converting a 3 br into a 4 or 5 br house.
    I did consider the 2 bedroom split and yes its plenty big enough for it, Im going to have to buy a new TV if my couch goes against the back wall its so far my 55" will just be too small to view. (Please agree as the Mrs doesnt understand why OLED 4k HDR is so damn good lol).

    But we may only be living in it for a year. Once we move on I want to maximise yield.

    Id say at a guess 70% of the houses would be 4 bedroom. Its pretty much all young families and the rest retirees. Is there any way to get a tally of houses with 3,4,5 bedrooms etc in a suburb?

    Is there a legality behind what size a room has to be to be called a bedroom? The problem with the study is the width, I think its about 2mx2.5m (3.5m without the wardrobe)

    I also considered possibly extending the study out a bit externally to make it TRUELY a bedroom. It possibly could fit a double bed now but would have to be agains the window wall, it also gets a bit of an ocean view. It would mean pushing the study wall out and also modifying the existing entrance a bit. But Im not sure of the cost to make such a major change? Also Im not as keen on this idea as it will likely be our PPOR again in 10 years time so putting it back to as is would be easier with the first change.

    John TBuilder you may know approx cost of such an external change (james hardie weatherboard)? Attached modified diagram below to explan what I mean by pushing the external wall out.

    Interesting is the upper quartile is not a huge difference, but the median between 3 and 4 bed is. This would definitely be in the upper quartile though. A lot of other 4 bed places are townhouses not standalone etc and not fitted to the quality of this home.

    Its not a massive Yield of 5.8% but would be 6.6% with the extra room, which is a big change in Auckland prices etc.


    Last edited by donna; 15-01-2020 at 03:40 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    above is another example of you using macro level data... you need to get out of your office and hit the street... macro data will only every give you directional inputs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    260

    Default

    When you say hit the streets what do you mean? I base my spreedsheets off looking at other houses in person and tracking their sakes price and looking at their layouts and what houses are selling for or have sold for along with their layouts, which is easy enough to track now days.

    I firmly believe the majority of the area is 4 bedroom. I think my property was designed for quality of a 3 bedroom home with the possibility of a guest staying in the study. Having lots of living space is a good thing, but 4th bedroom would add value.

  9. #9

    Default

    If you're out viewing things yourself then you're on the right track maybe it's the level of detail you're observing that is the issue. The comments you post seem to be very macro in nature, maybe not so much this thread but others. You need to drill down into the details a few levels - i.e. no just how many bedrooms and the average rent for a house with x bedrooms.

    These are the sorts of questions we try to answer:

    - What is it about the highest renting 4 br houses vs. the average?
    > Is there a rent premium for a house in this area with a new kitchen - if yes, how much (and what is the cost)?
    > Is there a rent premium for a house in this area with a new bathroom - if yes, how much (and what is the cost)?
    > is there a rent premium by taking a 3 br and turning it into a 4 br? - if yes, how much (and what is the cost)?


    As an example - where we invest new carpet and paint add the most value upgrading a kitchen and a bathroom don't seem to add any more to the rent so spending the $10-$15k doesn't have a great return. This might change in the future but as of now it doesn't.

    Interestingly - having a heat pump isn't desired - likely due to the cost of running so when the govt force this on us we will spend the $$ but not achieve any additional return (as our customers don't see any additional value) so by doing along side a paint/carpet we can get a reasonable return off the combination of additions.

    In a neighboring suburb having an old kitchen/bathroom is considered unacceptable so an upgrade to a kitchen and bathroom has a positive impact on rents.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't believe the Hype View Post
    These are the sorts of questions we try to answer:

    - What is it about the highest renting 4 br houses vs. the average?
    > Is there a rent premium for a house in this area with a new kitchen - if yes, how much (and what is the cost)?
    > Is there a rent premium for a house in this area with a new bathroom - if yes, how much (and what is the cost)?
    > is there a rent premium by taking a 3 br and turning it into a 4 br? - if yes, how much (and what is the cost)?
    Yep Im with you, I definitely find viewing is the only way to determine this. Probably the reason you see a lot of my posts as being at a higher persepctive is that I dont use the site for advice, merely just for speculation. You cant hold anybody to an opinion so I take everything with a grain of salt. What I actually do is a lot different to what I post.

    Anyway to answer the question to the differential, 4 beds in the area are very much family homes but most have VERY small if any back yard.

    The property I chose has a gorgeous back yard with a large trees, perfect grass, great on the feet and a deck that is off but near to ground level making it an easy access for all.

    The other thing that seems to make a difference in price is quality of kitchen, at least 2 bathrooms, again quality like heat lamps minimum.

    The place i chose has brand new plush carpet, Ill post pics when I move in. Its about 1yr old to be exact, but has a 30 year garuntee. The kitchen is all stone tops with high quality cabinetry and expensive euro appliances and amazing lighting in the kitchen and dining.

    The house which was Architect designed and PM'd still has warranty for a year and a bit from the Master Builder.

    Also another thing I noticed higher rent prices were on homes that had things like gas heating, heat pumps and HRV, quality air for health etc. Which the property I chose has.

    lastly it has sea glimpses. I could have bought a crappy run down 2 bed bach for the same price with better views, but for me, as long as I can see the ocean thats all I need as it tells me whether I can go spearfishing (along with web services) :-). And the location is no different to the run down old bach asking the same price I paid, which to be fair was a good price.

    I think it seems fairly obvious that a higher quality home can collect more rent, but what MAKES a quality home can be very many different things.

    When we move its like 18 months away, I think I might try it at the high end of a 3 bed, being a high end home with a study and robes in all rooms inc the study. If I cant get what I want, I might consider just putting that sliding door idea across the lounge and selling it as, its your choice, lounge or 4th bedroom. If they need a 4th bed for a 5ft and under person, the study would accommodate a young person.

    Thanks for your thoughts mate.


 

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