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Moving from Renovating houses to property development? Given NZ now most volatile.

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  • Moving from Renovating houses to property development? Given NZ now most volatile.

    Ive bee renovating since 2000 in SE Qld and then back in NZ when the key government messed up by printing money and propping up a market that could have lost 20-30% and only lost 4%. So Gen Y and Z have no concept of markets going backward and people commiting suicide over investing millions of other peoples money in the stock market.

    Given Bloomberg saying NZ and Canada are the 2 most at risk property markets of MAJOR correction.

    I think the Auckland Plateau over last few years is a good sign of this occurring. Our country has borrowed more money than it produces annually. Possibly a lost gen thing in personal lending but a lot of it is mortgage.

    As someone who has always gotten in an out before dips in suburbs and markets in general, it has worked for me. So the above even if we drop 30-40% .I dont believe that, but going on 9% from 1999, we should be at about 650k median in Auck not $800k, a 20% correction will be max. Of course some property types could lose 50% like 2008, holiday apartments, apartments, basically anything with no land to justify the ridiculous prices.

    I try to ignore noise, I do my thing, get in and get out. I dont rip people off by converting 1 bedroom units into 2 with tiny rooms and splitting a window. I do however buy below market value and I dont renovate to add value, I renovate to increase its chances of selling quickly. Now all that still works in a market that poops itself provided you have bought WELL below market value.

    All of that is well and good. But I want to try my hand at property development, no not adding a wall for a new room, or turning the rumpus into a self contained granny flat.

    Im thinking unit/villa development.

    Now these things take much more time, I cant get 60 days early access and sell them before I owe a cent like with general renovate to sell.

    How do I negate risk in this type of development? Is it a case of waiting? (for a market to pop or have some reason for stability, not likely in an economy driven by milk and propaganda tourism, both at odds with each other).

    What is my first step in finding the right property to convert to multi dwelling, find the right town planning of course, but what else should I look for?

    What is the easiest, quickest and safest multi to dip my toes in?

    Both myself and my partner who is a Dr but also a project manager are both project managers at work and have found this side of things not too difficult. But a bit scared of the unkown.

  • #2
    Experienced as outlined - just do it, first time - hard time.
    The risks are builder's delays and time frame for compliance, and preparing for unforeseen events.
    Crucial are holding costs. Each project has its specific.

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    • #3
      Thanks

      I think the biggest thing I am scared of Is not being able to get in an out quick, which is my risk management.

      What would be the best easiest projects to start with? how do you find the appropriate properties?

      Are Units the easiest? Do you simply look for large lots of multi dwelling zoned areas?

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      • #4
        Good on you. I have been in the same boat with the transition from renovating to development, although I do both.
        Like you I knew nothing about development so for my first project I hired a contractor to do the whole project and I was on site nearly every day taking photos and learning.
        I would suggest units, whether residential or commercial, as long as you have a good sought after location.
        Profiting from Property, not People

        Want free help on taking your portfolio to the next level?

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        • #5
          Interested in the same thing. My remodels of older housing have been awesome and I'm now looking for ways to lock down more housing in the 12-18 months it takes to drag a project to completion.
          Free online Property Investment Course from iFindProperty, a residential investment property agency.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by OnTheMove View Post
            I think the biggest thing I am scared of Is not being able to get in an out quick, which is my risk management.
            Development really isn't for you. Getting 'in an out quick' simply doesn't happen.

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            • #7
              As Olly Newland said...Try Developing if you like lying awake in bed at night with a cold sweat, and ultimately going Bankrupt!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nick G View Post
                Interested in the same thing. My remodels of older housing have been awesome and I'm now looking for ways to lock down more housing in the 12-18 months it takes to drag a project to completion.
                In Auckland or in the provinces?

                The provinces is often a good starting point, you get more bang for your buck.
                The land is cheaper and you can build a small 3 bed house with carport.
                You need to know your market on location though, and what buyers want.
                If you check out some of the new developments you will see the houses are getting smaller, even in the provinces.
                It becomes an economy of scale. Because the land also needs to be developed then the first house usually pays back a smaller profit on sale. But from that sale you can then build two more houses, and so the snow ball effect begins. From the sale of 2 houses is enough to build 4 more.
                Profiting from Property, not People

                Want free help on taking your portfolio to the next level?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by chook View Post
                  As Olly Newland said...Try Developing if you like lying awake in bed at night with a cold sweat, and ultimately going Bankrupt!
                  Development requires full-time focus.
                  It's not a side thing like commercial seminars.
                  Spread the risk and continue with buy and holds also.
                  Yiu might just have to put some of the renovations on hold
                  Profiting from Property, not People

                  Want free help on taking your portfolio to the next level?

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                  • #10
                    Development is hard. Whatever you think your final profit will be, half it. Never go into a deal if the margins look too tight

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                    • #11
                      Why are you guys wanting to move from what works for you to something else? Is the reward worth the risk or are you just looking for a new challenge?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nick000 View Post
                        Development is hard. Whatever you think your final profit will be, half it. Never go into a deal if the margins look too tight
                        Yes that's right you need to allow for contingency, material price hikes, labour absence, mishaps, the unexpected, etc. If you intend to sell it you should be able to afford to hold it.

                        You should still come out with a 100% profit.
                        Profiting from Property, not People

                        Want free help on taking your portfolio to the next level?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Don't believe the Hype View Post
                          Why are you guys wanting to move from what works for you to something else? Is the reward worth the risk or are you just looking for a new challenge?
                          For me it's about going where the money is.
                          Profiting from Property, not People

                          Want free help on taking your portfolio to the next level?

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                          • #14
                            Yea. Bob Jones says that in rough math the return should be double as when you're finished, you'll end up with a much lower return

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DaveW View Post
                              For me it's about going where the money is.
                              Fair enough. For me an additional $ is far less attractive than risking the pile I already have.

                              Some say to me that the natural move is from residential investing to commercial - I know nothing about this game so why would I take that risk EVEN if the return is higher as so is the risk.

                              Others say become a developer - now what a minefield that is... we've developed our own land and done so successfully but even on those projects without the deep pockets we have it could have ended up differently.

                              To me chasing the $ is ok up to a point - and to be fair I did that for a long time in a way that didn't expose me beyond what I could cover (financially) and the risks I took were calculated - but once I achieved my target the plan was to de-risk which we've been doing ever since.

                              If I want to keep busy and make $$ I do more of what I know.

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