Renovation whilst tenanted.

[Kate Blue]

Hi

We have one investment property and are wanting the bathroom renovated. Its badly needing an update and around the bathroom (hasn't been touched since the 70s Id say)and the wood has rotted away. So! Time to bite the bullet and pay $$$$ for the bathroom to be updated and renovated. Believe me its a cost I could do with out but realistically its not going to be any better. So time to take it on the chin and get it totally renovated. I have a couple of quotes and done a wee bit of research. As the tenant pays on time and has been living there 3 years instead of moving them out - I thought they could stay in the property whilst the bathroom is being renovated. I have added a portable shower to my costs and the toilet is seperate so that won't be a problem. I advised my property manager I can't afford to pay for a hotel.

I have called the tenancy people in Government but there seems to be either a lack of information or because its not urgent I haven't been able to pin down anything concrete. I wonder if anyone else has renovated whilst having a tenant in the property?

I have proposed that we draw up a temporary contract stating the following:
That we intend the bathroom to be renovated.

*Time that bathroom renovations will be carried out. (to be advised. I think 2 and a half weeks.) And duration. (with a caveat that if they find something unexpected it may take longer.)


*That we realise it will be an upheaval but work is imperative as wood is rotting around the bath as is the bathroom door (which will be replaced.)


*I can offer a slight decrease in rent.


*Its imperative that the workers can access the property when needed. I will also put a portion of money towards the power bill.




*It might be that some hardware may be needed to be stored there for the duration of the job as well as tools.


I think this is pretty fair and the tenant has a new bathroom! Probably flasher than mine! Im wondering if anyone has experience in renovating whilst tenated? Also = I'm getting the tenant to sign the contract before I go ahead and accept the quote. Is this something I can write up myself?

Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[John the builder]

Is there two bathrooms?
what about loss of quiet enjoyment?Free rent for the duration seems reasonable.

[artemis]

The property manager may have an idea about how long the tenants are likely to stay. Maybe they have talked about moving or buying. Average in Auckland (for example) is about 2 years.

In any case I would talk to the tenants first, preferably direct rather than leave it to the property manager. Who knows, they might be planning to move, might be OK with tradies all day in the house, might prefer that to being given notice ....

What you are proposing is highly disruptive and more than likely to exceed the timeframe mentioned with multiple subbies being juggled. Much better to crack into it when vacant.

[Kate Blue]

Thank you for your responses. I did touch on the possibility of vacating the property - however I know that rentals are very thin on the ground at the moment. Like people living in motels and I know that at least 45 people are queuing for each rental. Its tough. I thought by having her stay it saves the tenant from having to up sticks and find another place. I know her ability to find somewhere new is not my concern however I'm trying to be a good landlord - she pays rent on time, looks after the place etc.
The toilet is seperate and I'm also going to pay for a portable shower.
Good point about quiet enjoyment.
My property manager has got back to me saying that they will send a letter with the date work is to be started, the amount I will decrease the rent by. (all of these were my suggestions.) My Mum is insisting that I get a signature and just a letter won't do. Hubby says different . He says that the letter with intent of renovation is fine. The tenancy agency were about as helpful as wet socks.
What would you landlords do here? Would you insist on a signature on a letter? Any feed back is most appreciated.

[Meehole]

Is the tenant planning on a holiday so maybe you can repair while she is away? Sometimes a tenant will move out and stay with a friend, they can either stay for free with the friend or give her some of the rent she would otherwise pay to you.

[Don't believe the Hype]

Is there two bathrooms?
what about loss of quiet enjoyment?Free rent for the duration seems reasonable.

2 weeks loss of quite enjoyment is more than offset with a fully renovated bathroom for the rest of their rental term I would have thought.

[Meehole]

2 weeks loss of quite enjoyment is more than offset with a fully renovated bathroom for the rest of their rental term I would have thought.

As a landlord you can't win. Maybe she thinks loss of quiet enjoyment while its being renovated versus not fixing the problem and her having to put up with a rotten bathroom. Does she work? Loss of quiet enjoyment is only when the landlord makes a nuisance of themselves by bullying, harassing or stalking. Having said that a tenant claimed I did that to her when we went and did some maintenance on the property (which was managed by PM) and I used my visceral vision to do an impromptu inspection while at the property! That I asked the illegal occupants at the property is anything else needed attention while there was also considered by tenant as loss of quiet enjoyment. Hey our rental goes on the market on Monday, so glad that I will never ever have to deal with tenants ever again!! The house is looking fabulous and I hope some young first home buyer will buy and enjoy it.

[Thinkingbutnotdoing]

As someone who was a good tenant for many years before i bought, I would prefer the following approach. Phone them and say, hey the bathroom is in poor condition and needs fixing. I've had estimates that will it will take a couple of weeks. I'd like you to stay on if you are keen and figure out a good solution for us both. On option, if you wanted to stay on (and have a lovely new bathroom) is that i get a portable shower in for you. it will mean that for 2 weeks the bathroom will be totally out of order (used for storing tools overnight also) and there will be a tradesman here all day which I know is a pain so i'm happy to halve the rent for that period. Or if you have another solution I'm happy to discuss.

You can then record it in writing if you feel the need, even if its just an email saying "as discussed with you on the phone on XXX date...."

[m3ntis]

Having done this myself and later in the relationship..a year later, the tenant pulled this situation out of their back pocket to demand exit from their fixed contract with the tenancy tribunal and then go into make a claim for distress...a year later

The tribunal sees that a tenant must have hygiene facilities provided as per the RTA or the house cannot be tenanted. That’s the bottom line.

The question on claims comes down to how impacted eg builders in the house walking round, noise, dust, tools, start/ finish times, kids in the property, sewage smells etc temporary facilities and materials laying around. The tribunal is lenient in cases where the rent has been reduced, temporary facilities provided that the tenant agrees to, clear & formal notice provided and offers to relocate or help the tenant relocate (eg stay with family) have been turned down

Ensure photos of the situation are taken daily..as was in my case the tenant went on to complain a yr later as the water was turned off at times and the sewer pipes temporarily changed; they lost access to the kitchen and ability to do their laundry..I had to prove that loss of water was only for 4hrs while the plumber put in new valves rather than the 2wks being claimed..

[elguapo]

Loss of quiet enjoyment is only when the landlord makes a nuisance of themselves by bullying, harassing or stalking.

I wonder where you found that definition?

[Meehole]

I wonder where you found that definition?

My tenant alleged I did that to her when we went to do organised maintenance on the property. My eyes faltered from straight ahead and out of the corner of my eye saw some additional maintenance issues that I asked if they needed attending to. To which the uncle of the 2 children he was looking after agreed they did. 2 children that as it transpired who did not ordinarily reside at the property and were not listed on the tenancy agreement.
She did not succeed as I investigated thoroughly what loss of quiet enjoyment was and my interpretation was the same as the adjudicator.

[elguapo]

She did not succeed as I investigated thoroughly what loss of quiet enjoyment was and my interpretation was the same as the adjudicator.

Both you and the adjudicator are wrong, as was the tenant.

[Meehole]

Both you and the adjudicator are wrong, as was the tenant.

Oh righto, will bow to your superior knowledge then. TT decision went my way on that matter so that is all I care about.

[donna]

Gezz it's impossible to keep tenanted rentals up to standard. Wouldn't it just be easier to give them notice and then get access to do the bathroom and whatever else needs doing (make the most of the downtime) and then put it back on the market. Or is there a new law against doing this too?

cheers,

Donna

[FJW]

Hi Kate,

I've got a bit of experience in this field and it sounds like your certainly on the right track, you just need to make it clear to the tenants on the following;

exactly what work is going do be doing by whom, be as detailed as possible

start and finish times and whether there will be any weekend work done or done over a public holiday

what disruption the tenants can expect

spell everything out to the tradespeople so there is no misunderstanding, for example, if decorating is going to be getting done then when they are sanding for their personal effects to be covered so it doesn't get dust on them

Ensure the trades people tidy up at the end of each day

If there are any hazards put a hazard board up and have the work area cordoned off

It sounds basic but the amount of times that the basics don't get followed I've lost count

Hope that helps