lets talk about tax baby.

[McDuck]

Tax.
What is it, why do we pay it, how much is fair?

This is an abstract discussion, for anyone who just likes to understand the nature of things for the pure enjoyment of knowing.
If you just want to get your nose to the grindstone and make lots of cash, because everyone else is doing it, or because you want to retire to a luxury beach in Hawaii, then this isn't the conversation for you.

As far as I can tell, I pay lots of tax, and lots of it seems to be spent on stuff I get no benefit from.
I don't know, I haven't priced the cost of a police force or a medical system.
I am pretty sure though, that the parking meter taxation system, for example, is not giving me good transportation services.

I wonder how this whole tax thing got started, and if its still running right.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but historically, the warlord of a particular kingdom demanded protection money.

So the first tax was a sort of contribution to a standing army, rather than having to go and take on the next kingdom with a slightly sharpened stick.

[artemis]

Don't forget rates. They already ping householders more depending on the value of the home asset, regardless of household factors like income or occupancy. A flat rate per dwelling, or a poll tax, would be fairer. Neither ever likely to happen.

And water rates. In Wellington, water rates are calculated on the same basis as other rates. A homeowner can, however, have a voluntary water meter. Suits homeowners with a high value home and low occupancy. Not many take it up, possibly not aware of it.

[McDuck]

Don't forget rates. They already ping householders more depending on the value of the home asset, regardless of household factors like income or occupancy. A flat rate per dwelling, or a poll tax, would be fairer. Neither ever likely to happen.

And water rates. In Wellington, water rates are calculated on the same basis as other rates. A homeowner can, however, have a voluntary water meter. Suits homeowners with a high value home and low occupancy. Not many take it up, possibly not aware of it.

A very good point.
For the purposes of this discussion, I'd agree with you, that a tax can be any mandatory transfer of wealth or labor, from the populous, into the hands of an individual or authority.

Wiki tells me that the first recorded tax system was in Ancient Egypt.
Some 5000 years ago.
Or 20,000 generations ago, as I like to think of it.

Since they were a grain producing people, the tax was one fifth of production.
I pay more than that, buy a large amount, if you add it all up.
So I'm being squeezed more than my ancient ancestors.

[McDuck]

Here's an interesting quote for your consideration.


"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization."

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.


So, is that true?
and if we vote for less tax, are we choosing a less civilised society?

[artemis]

How about this ...

"The real goal should be reduced government spending, rather than balanced budgets achieved by ever rising tax rates to cover ever rising spending."

– Thomas Sowell, American Economist and Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution

[McDuck]

How about this ...

"The real goal should be reduced government spending, rather than balanced budgets achieved by ever rising tax rates to cover ever rising spending."

– Thomas Sowell, American Economist and Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution

Nice.
You need a balanced view.


While Oliver was a judge, who lived in that world of always facing selfish, irrational behavior, Thomas was a black man, conscripted into a war, to eventually become an academic. (But I suspect he's really an artist).
So Yes, they reflect their environments.

One sees the evil of savagery, and the other the evil of slavery.
But how does this help us figure out the original questions, and is America a good model for New Zealand to emulate?
Do wo have their resources for example ( I think not).

[McDuck]

But what about the small view?

Personally, I find tax a disincentive to activity.
For me, like most living things, the bigger the reward, the greater the attraction.
Unlike most living things, who are usually after, food, water, and reproduction, I'm also attracted partly by money.
Money, being able to be swapped for the above mentioned things.

Especially when I'm coming up with a new venture, or product.
It's difficult enough to find a need, figure out how to bring all the materials and skills, etc together, to fill that need.

Then the time and effort in dealing with official red tape, and creating efficient systems.
Only to have someone just put out a big hand, reach into your pocket, and take a good whack of the profit.

Less profit, less incentive.
Often, i'll just not bother, another opportunity is lost to the country.

[Beano]

But what about the small view?

Personally, I find tax a disincentive to activity.
For me, like most living things, the bigger the reward, the greater the attraction.
Unlike most living things, who are usually after, food, water, and reproduction, I'm also attracted partly by money.
Money, being able to be swapped for the above mentioned things.

Especially when I'm coming up with a new venture, or product.
It's difficult enough to find a need, figure out how to bring all the materials and skills, etc together, to fill that need.

Then the time and effort in dealing with official red tape, and creating efficient systems.
Only to have someone just put out a big hand, reach into your pocket, and take a good whack of the profit.

Less profit, less incentive.
Often, i'll just not bother, another opportunity is lost to the country.

How much tax do you pay pa?

[McDuck]

How much tax do you pay pa?

I never discuss numbers.
but, a lot.

For the purposes of this discussion,
it's probably way more than I pay directly to the TAX dept.

For example, the new 1.5% OCR announced today, is a TAX on my money.
Tricky, indirect, hard to see, but never the less, money taken from me without my permission.

That aside, what did you have in mind?

[McDuck]

Risk.

One of the most important things to manage in any business is risk.

One compelling reason I always pay (sometimes overpay) my taxes is to control risk.

I stay out of grey areas also.

I need to know that there's no big unplanned for tax in my future.

thoughts?

[McDuck]

This is an open discussion.


Any point of view, or idea, no matter how trivial or stupid or unpopular, will usually lead to an important understanding for all.
But I can understand your reservations.

How about the Hosking approach then?
He may not be liked, but controversy gets chins a wagging.


How about this..

Call center workers, in third word countries, should pay tax in New Zealand, if they are doing live voice work in this country.

The actual worker should be liable for a work visa and a new kind of remote P.A.Y.E

The remote work should just as taxable as the local work.


(Just the same way that throwing a rock at someone can get you to prison, despite the fact that the harm was done by an intermediate mechanism).

[McDuck]

Disruptive technology.
That's what they call the internet.


It's pretty apparent ( after a small bit of thinking) that the Tax system hasn't understood how the Internet has changed work, property and money.
Any government who fails to do so, is missing the opportunity the do the best for its citizens and responsibilities.


Just think, by taxing remote call centers and remote wage earners, a country has a way to control it's own future better.
It would stop all those annoying calls to and from people, who have no idea about our culture or customs
Every time you want to deal with a big business, well you know.
You will get actual customer service for a change.

It would then promote local call centers and those workers would be buying local goods and services, while the companies would be renting local commercial buildings to put them in. Local geographic knowledge would save time also.

No, stop, no need for your to develop the idea, i'll do it.
Don't waste that free education on thinking, there's game of thrones to watch, perhaps another cat video on YouTube (ha).

Data, a product of the internet, is also misunderstood.
It's a real little package.

Sure, not wrapped in brown paper, held with white string, and containing a woolly sweater from your favorite aunt in Canada, but still real.
Very small, in great quantity, but still a real packet containing something of value.
It needs to be treated as such, and taxed as such.


Claude Shannon of Bell Labs even gave it a name. The bit.
Bell knew they needed to price what they shifted.

Think of the possibilities.
Because Tax you see, at the government level, is mainly a tool to guide and steer human behavior.
And I'm not even sure they have figured that out

[kayleycun]

RE: lets talk about tax baby.

I will start off by apologizing if this isn't the right location for this post. I tried to search for similar topics, but couldn't find anything for my specific questions and then I found this. I just want to ask if you know any accountant or any company out there that provides these kinds of services in this pandemic?

[donna]

Kayleycun, you say in your post 'questions' - but the only question you posted was one that was so broad and vague I nearly hit the 'spam' button, so you'll need to be a lot more specific in your next reply please. What 'questions' do you have and please remember PropertyTalk - is for property discussion so if your questions are not related to 'property' 'real estate', you've probably got the wrong forum. I have noticed your IP address is Singapore so are you sure you're in the right place?

cheers,

Donna