Healthy Homes Guarantee Act standards announced

[artemis]

If you believe that then good on you, BUT the Nats do not have any record of doing any such thing.
They are as socialist as the Labour people they hug.....

National have announced rental related repeals, some specific and some more general with details pending. With Ms Collins in the housing chair I would say chances of a lot of stuff happening in that portfolio are pretty good.

[klauster]

National have announced rental related repeals, some specific and some more general with details pending. With Ms Collins in the housing chair I would say chances of a lot of stuff happening in that portfolio are pretty good.

If the rental market needs changes, hitting the ground might be more helpful than cosmetic corrections to prolong suffering. Did not National increased tax (GST, Bright-line tests…) unbalanced the housing market..?

[Davo36]

If the rental market needs changes, hitting the ground might be more helpful than cosmetic corrections to prolong suffering. Did not National increased tax (GST, Bright-line tests…) unbalanced the housing market..?

And removed depreciation, removed LAQCs. Raised GST when they said they wouldn't (in opposition).

[PC]

Has the deadline for the healthy homes changes been extended for 6 months or until the rent freeze is removed?
If can't recoup the costs then no work should be carried out.

[simongu]

I wouldnt think so given that the deadline for implementing changes is still over a year away, we "only" have to report level of compliance @ 1 July. And I dont think that has changed as about 2 weeks ago I inquired of Tenancy Services wherefor the long-promised reporting template (as per their website https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/starting...ncy-agreements) - answer "still not available we should do our own". So until we get notified I am assuming no change

[flyernzl]

No changes announced as far as I am aware.

[simongu]

Healthy Homes Reporting Deadline extended to 1-Dec

Some good news for a change! The 1-July reporting deadline has been extended to 1-Dec-20, and there is now a standardised reporting template on the website

https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/starting-a-tenancy/tenancy-agreements/required-statements-for-tenancy-agreements/#intent-to-comply

Complete co-incidence that this change happened yesterday while a parliamentary question on the matter was being prepared

[mrhaboobi]

Healthy Homes Heating Requirements Not obtainable.. help

Hi All.

So i have done the numbers using the healthy homes calculator.

Small 3 bedroom property, open plan, living area about 47 m2. Nothing too strange about that. CHCH based.

Calculator provides the following out comes.


You need 6.3kW of heating capacity to heat your living room. This is the minimum required heating capacity you need to meet the healthy homes standards, based on the information you supplied. It takes into account your local climate and the design and construction of your home. The tool makes some assumptions to keep things simple.

Your heaters need to provide this heating capacity with an outdoor temperature of -4C

Heat pump installers need to know the outdoor temperature to work to. This is because the heating capacity of a heat pump reduces with colder outdoor temperatures. If you live somewhere cold, you may need a particular model of heat pump to give enough heating capacity.

Property is less than 1 year old, has a 6kw heat pump, so in theory it does not comply, additional heating cannot be added based on the legislation that only allows installs before July 2019 to be extended by a few KW.

So off we go to the heat pump stores. The first thing to note is the -4C rating requirement. this is not a figure the heat pump manufactures use, infact the NZ std is based on ratings at 7 degree.
So I ring up the makers and ask for the specifics. they can provide figures for -5 but -4 isnt something they use in the industry. Ok so that's cool.. what model do i need to meet the above.. 6.3 KW @ -4 outside. Answer. The LARGEST possible heat pump you can currently buy in NZ, that's right 8 - 9 KW. had the room area been larger ( like a 4 bedroom property with even more open space ) then its commercial units only.

So confused by this i rang tenancy services. They dont know, cant answer the questions. So i'm stuck. Does anyone know. but right now for a small 3 bedroom brand new home, its bordering on impossible to get a single heat pump to heat what is a small area. in my family home we couldn't meet the criteria.

Are people aware of this gotcha. Is it correct or a mis print by the web site calculator. Im looking at the maths and trying to figure out what it really needs. I think the web site is actually wrong and the maths accounts for the being in chch and pumps up the heating requirement and the whole -4 thing is actually just plain wrong. but i cant get anyone from the right service agency to confirm.

Keen to hear peoples thoughts because if its correct then to be honest no one can meet it,

[artemis]

Ask your nearest opposition MP to ask a written or oral question. Or ask an official information request yourself. Oral question gets the fastest answer, then written question, then official information request. Or all three. Thing is then there will be official answers but more importantly it should propel officials to have a proper look. They have to answer.

Asking Minister Faafoi though - don't bother, answer will be boilerplate fluff even though (or because) he is in charge.

Official info requests are bet done via fyi.Org.nz as answers are public.

[mrhaboobi]

I think that approach is ok if you have time . And im speaking with the tenancy services and the person i dealing with is really trying to be very helpful, but the issue here is that if people dont realise the wording on the site is stating that you need the unit in this case rated to output 6.3 KW at -4 Degree then actually most larger properties 3 - 4 bedroom which is open plan, will be non compliant and there will be limited options in the market.

Ive spoke with all the major heat pump manufacturers and they are confused as to how this can be proposed. I was told to buy a mitsi hypercore, but their top model supports 6KW, and they dont do larger.

Seems like there is a possible huge flaw here very frustrating.

People just go .. yup need 6.3 KW. ok my unit says its a 6KW installed before july 2019 so im within the 90% clause to avoid needing a top up, when in reality give the -4 degree criteria you are way outside that 90% bracket and need to purchase a second heat pump.

would love to know if there are any healthy home assessment companies who are aware of this..

[Perry]

Not Really Helpful

Never forget that the expression "Healthy Homes" is a total lie. The legislation only applies to residential rentals.
Any Labour supporter living in their own home can freeze to death, for all the socio-commies care.

[simongu]

The maths looks about right, I have had 4 installations done and because I didnt trust the website build my own model in Excel using the formula in the legislation as a cross-check, and they all came out within about 5% of the website. My largest one was 43m2 and the requirement was just under 6kw in Auckland, I adjusted my model for -4 for your situation and it came out as 6.8 so the 6.3 seems about right.
I didnt have any particular problem getting a heat pump for that specification, but my installer did say that much larger might have had to go multi-unit

[Don't believe the Hype]

Hi All.

So i have done the numbers using the healthy homes calculator.

Small 3 bedroom property, open plan, living area about 47 m2. Nothing too strange about that. CHCH based.

Calculator provides the following out comes.


You need 6.3kW of heating capacity to heat your living room. This is the minimum required heating capacity you need to meet the healthy homes standards, based on the information you supplied. It takes into account your local climate and the design and construction of your home. The tool makes some assumptions to keep things simple.

Your heaters need to provide this heating capacity with an outdoor temperature of -4C

Heat pump installers need to know the outdoor temperature to work to. This is because the heating capacity of a heat pump reduces with colder outdoor temperatures. If you live somewhere cold, you may need a particular model of heat pump to give enough heating capacity.

Property is less than 1 year old, has a 6kw heat pump, so in theory it does not comply, additional heating cannot be added based on the legislation that only allows installs before July 2019 to be extended by a few KW.

So off we go to the heat pump stores. The first thing to note is the -4C rating requirement. this is not a figure the heat pump manufactures use, infact the NZ std is based on ratings at 7 degree.
So I ring up the makers and ask for the specifics. they can provide figures for -5 but -4 isnt something they use in the industry. Ok so that's cool.. what model do i need to meet the above.. 6.3 KW @ -4 outside. Answer. The LARGEST possible heat pump you can currently buy in NZ, that's right 8 - 9 KW. had the room area been larger ( like a 4 bedroom property with even more open space ) then its commercial units only.

So confused by this i rang tenancy services. They dont know, cant answer the questions. So i'm stuck. Does anyone know. but right now for a small 3 bedroom brand new home, its bordering on impossible to get a single heat pump to heat what is a small area. in my family home we couldn't meet the criteria.

Are people aware of this gotcha. Is it correct or a mis print by the web site calculator. Im looking at the maths and trying to figure out what it really needs. I think the web site is actually wrong and the maths accounts for the being in chch and pumps up the heating requirement and the whole -4 thing is actually just plain wrong. but i cant get anyone from the right service agency to confirm.

Keen to hear peoples thoughts because if its correct then to be honest no one can meet it,

The simple answer is that the house you have isn't a rental based on the ideology of this government.

Rentals of the future are only very small boxes. No pitched ceilings, no large areas of windows (only 5% of the floor space that can be opened). Think Singapore style HDB housing or communist era Russian blocks...

Sell the rental to a FHB for a premium then buy a jail cell (i mean rental unit) for the renters.

[Don't believe the Hype]

Ask your nearest opposition MP to ask a written or oral question. Or ask an official information request yourself. Oral question gets the fastest answer, then written question, then official information request. Or all three. Thing is then there will be official answers but more importantly it should propel officials to have a proper look. They have to answer.

Asking Minister Faafoi though - don't bother, answer will be boilerplate fluff even though (or because) he is in charge.

Official info requests are bet done via fyi.Org.nz as answers are public.

Photo op Faafoi is best with soundbites and only when there is a camera pointed at him

[mrhaboobi]

The maths looks about right, I have had 4 installations done and because I didnt trust the website build my own model in Excel using the formula in the legislation as a cross-check, and they all came out within about 5% of the website. My largest one was 43m2 and the requirement was just under 6kw in Auckland, I adjusted my model for -4 for your situation and it came out as 6.8 so the 6.3 seems about right.
I didnt have any particular problem getting a heat pump for that specification, but my installer did say that much larger might have had to go multi-unit

I think you missed the point..

Yes a 6.3 or 6.8 Heat pump is readily available. However the NZ standard rate heat pumps when its 7 degrees outside. ( AS / NZS3823.2 )

So that 6KW unit you bought is rated at 6 KW of heat output when its 7 degrees outside, at 1 degree the performance drops ( your requirement is auckland ) .. at -4 degree that heat pump puts out just 3 KW of heat.

Read this page the section on Hyper core to understand what i'm pointing out about the power degrading

https://www.mitsubishi-electric.co.nz/heatpump/c/8597/black-diamond-high-wall-heat-pumps

So for me to achieve 6.3KW of heat when its -4 degrees outside ( as per the requirements given in the calculator ) i actually need to buy a 9 KW heat pump to account for the performance loss, People are completely overlooking this requirement, and just looking at the numbers and going, yes i have a 6kW Heat Pump so im ok. Based on the tenancy services information you are actually NOT meeting the requirements. Its a rather pedantic point, but a very important one, the wording is totally incorrect. And its yet another issue for landlords which is an issue.

Ive spoken to multiple installers and ive even reached out to a healthy homes assessment company ( x2) to ask them their interpretation. The heat pump manufacturers are completely across the issue and understand the implications for landlords, they believe its insane, the installers and assessor have not clicked onto the fine print in the calculator and are giving out incorrect information..

Im surprised this hasnt been raised before.