Is growth a good thing?

[Bob Kane]

Could it be that you're 100% wrong and most people are coming to NZ precisely because it's underpopulated?

Dave, can you show any data to back up this claim?
It's often claimed that people flock to NZ because of the low population and the wide open spaces but I've never seen any evidence that this is the reason people settle in NZ.
I suspect this is an urban myth.

[Perry]

Is growth a good thing?

Restricting the number of immigrants has been mentioned a lot lately.
The most common view expressed has been to stop all immigrants coming to NZ.

I think the idea was to have a moratorium for a while.

This leads me to the question about population growth.
Is it better to have an increasing population or a decreasing population?
Or better to have a static population?
I'm currently thinking in favour of an increasing population.
I think a country improves in many ways with population growth.

Have you provided a list of all these improvements which you perceive?

[Bob Kane]

Have you provided a list of all these improvements which you perceive?

It comes down to more opportunities - more people = more jobs available, more efficiencies available (public transport works better in large populations), more choices available - wider range of hospital care, more choices in selecting schools - the list is endless.
I don't understand anyone who thinks a wider choice is a bad thing.
Do you?

[Davo36]

It comes down to more opportunities - more people = more jobs available, more efficiencies available (public transport works better in large populations), more choices available - wider range of hospital care, more choices in selecting schools - the list is endless.
I don't understand anyone who thinks a wider choice is a bad thing.
Do you?

Yes, I do. I have friends who think.

So answer me this: Why then are countries with more people no better off? Take the UK for example, is everything peachy over there? Or so they have all the same problems, just on a bigger scale?

[Bob Kane]

So answer me this: Why then are countries with more people no better off? Take the UK for example, is everything peachy over there? Or so they have all the same problems, just on a bigger scale?

Oh, I think they are (better off).
Larger cities have more opportunities - I think I've already said that a few times?
A place with more opportunities is better than a place with less opportunities.
Do you accept that to be true?

[Bob Kane]

Just trying to follow your line of thought.

I said:

I don't understand anyone who thinks a wider choice is a bad thing.

You replied:

Yes, I do. I have friends who think.

??
A wider choice is a bad thing to have?

I've noticed that a few socialist MPs and council staff try to restrict our choices in our lives but I never thought you were so inclined.
Or have I misread your postings?

[Wayne]

Oh, I think they are (better off).
Larger cities have more opportunities - I think I've already said that a few times?
A place with more opportunities is better than a place with less opportunities.
Do you accept that to be true?

Better is relative and very subjective.
If you are happy with the opportunities you have and value things other than more opportunities (like parks or wide open spaces or peace and quiet) then larger might not be better.
Shanghai must have endless opportunities with 26mil people.

[Davo36]

Or have I misread your postings?

Yes totally.

You just kind of categorically state that more people = wider opportunities = better life.

So as Wayne points out Shanghai must be wonderful!

But they are coming here...

See a flaw in your argument yet?

[Bob Kane]

Shanghai must have endless opportunities with 26mil people.

It sure does.
And people are flocking into it - witness the population growth:
1950 - 4 mill
1960 - 7 mill
1970 - 6 mill - woops, what happened there?, must have been a few unhappy people for so many to leave
1980 - 6 mill
1990 - 9 mill
2000 - 14 mill - jeez, must have become an attractive place, aye?
2010 - 20 mill - the party continued
2018 - 25 mill

So a clear example of people voting with their feet about where they want to live.
If they didn't like a large city then they would leave and live in a quiet town in the country.

[Bob Kane]

Yes totally.

You just kind of categorically state that more people = wider opportunities = better life.

So as Wayne points out Shanghai must be wonderful!

But they are coming here...

See a flaw in your argument yet?

Not yet.
Why don't you spell it out for me.
Are you asking why people in a socialist country with a corrupt government want to move to a democratic country?
Let me see now...

[Bob Kane]

Sydney is a big city - bigger than NZ.
Anyone notice swarms of people fleeing Sydney (because it's a big city) and moving to NZ?
Me neither.
A good example of people preferring to live in big cities than small.

[Perry]

A good example of people preferring to live in big cities than small.

How about:
A good example of some people preferring to live in big cities than small.

[Bob Kane]

How about:
A good example of some* people preferring to live in big cities than small.

* some = 5 million people in Sydney out of 8 million in NSW.
They live there by choice.
And they aren't trying to move to NZ.

[Nick G]

Arguing against urbanization is like denying climate change. It's happening regardless of what you want to be true.

[Wayne]

* some = 5 million people in Sydney out of 8 million in NSW.
They live there by choice.
And they aren't trying to move to NZ.

Fortunately there is somewhere, that isn't Sydney, for the other 3mil to live.
Not everyone wants to live in a biiiig city so it's nice there are small one also.