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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    7,443

    Default How's your cross lease going?

    Here's a good article on cross leases by NZH. So they were created back in the 60s by lawyers to get around the need to subdivide.

    David Whitburn wants them gone and has a plan. Another law firm is offering a great deal to convert them to fee simple titles $6K for three (think that means up to 3 properties under one cross lease title).

    The catch is councils won't play ball and say you need Resource Consent.

    Lots of good examples in the article, though no mention of what happens when a property owner is in breach of the title. One owner razed their property to the ground and built a new bigger (2 levels) one that now overlooks the neighbour on 1 level - so what happens? They are fined? What?

    And to add to it - our neighbours sold their property in 10 days. The purchaser may not be aware the flats plans don't reflect the property as there's been a few additions without neighbours consent. So what says the owner who's just sold.

    What's that saying ....fortune favours the brave? I guess so.

    cheers,

    Donna
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    1,586

    Default

    I was once told by someone who knew his stuff that the neighbours can technically go through the system to get the breached property returned to make the title correct again! But in most cases this would be considered unreasonable. They'd surely be liable for all costs of updating the flats plan though.

    My cross leases are going fine. The rental is no problem at all. The one I live in has caused me a couple little issues because it's old and we're not allowed to connect services without neighbours' consent. As such, we can't get piped gas connected, because one of the neighbours is a nutjob who genuinely believes that us getting gas connected might create a chain reaction explosion destroying the neighbourhood. We think he watches Home and Away.
    AAT Accounting Services - Property Specialist Accounting - AATAccounting.co.nz
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by donna View Post
    Here's a good article on cross leases by NZH.
    Lots of good examples in the article, though no mention of what happens when a property owner is in breach of the title. One owner razed their property to the ground and built a new bigger (2 levels) one that now overlooks the neighbour on 1 level - so what happens?
    Donna
    Instead of cross-lease a bigger built house on neighbour’s simple title would that resolve the problem?

    That media attention is based on the assumption “Cross-lease properties create problems”. Not the title, people create problems. It’s a good income source for councils and lawyers, maybe the housing minister shares such views too - the housing reform has just began! Or that’s why the stories in the media.

    As stated that cross-lease is “outdated and most owners and agents don't fully understand the lease provisions or know there is a lease agreement in place." True, what else needs to be abolished that people do not understand?

    Cross-lease titles have been labelled as "ticking time bomb", people have chosen them for sharing benefits and reducing costs that unfortunately changes during disputes when having less control. Unit titles and body corporate have the same tendency. But would a simple title or law changes resolve under laying human problems?

    Stated “It seems that people buying a cross lease property are either not fully informed about the terms”, but people pay lawyers for making informed decision, right? I prefer cross-lease properties, own few of them and never had a problem for decades.

    So, what happens when one unit gets an expensive upgrade or the land gets landscaped, would you be unhappy about the uplifted property value?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    7,443

    Default

    I'd like to see a follow up journalistic piece on 'what happened next' to an owner - like the one mentioned above who built a new 2 storey property.

    What does amaze me is properties can change hands like my neighbours did recently without the flats plans being accurate.

    cheers,

    Donna
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  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by donna View Post
    What does amaze me is properties can change hands like my neighbours did recently without the flats plans being accurate.
    cheers,
    Donna
    What amaze me more is the role of the council played in this example.
    Would it be reasonable to demolish neighbours new build, or is that an opportunity to upgrade your own bungalow?

    With housing and civil matters not knowing the law or not being able to enforce the civil law is the problem. Cross-lease agreements are a set of accepted rules between neighbours. With a simple title it's even worse, what can you do when neighbours block your view or are not responsive at all?

    The RTA is another example, getting an order might be possible but enforcing an order often not.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    7,443

    Default

    What's that saying: Laws are made to be broken. I guess the questions to ask when a 'civil' law gets in the way of your progress is - what's the worst that can happen? And what's the precedent in case law? I'm not in any way advocating law breaking, no never!

    cheers,

    Donna
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