How many landlords own multiple properties

[Courham]

Yep, judgmental I am.

Why shouldn't tenants expect a minimum level of insulation in this country. We've built crap housing for decades, totally unsuited to our climate but maybe its time to, oh I don't know lift the standard a tad. Is that really too much to ask? If a landlord's margins are too tight for that well maybe the investment wasn't really economic in the first place.

Maybe Danny is an old guy who refuses to upgrade his properties despite the upcoming changes being well signposted. Maybe it is uneconomic to upgrade them but maybe his strategy to cheap housing in the sticks was a tad…flawed. So he’s on a pension, big deal. Sell up get out of it if you can’t afford to upgrade to a basic standard DESPITE it being on the cards for years. If its uneconomic to upgrade them well maybe they we uneconomic in the first place but it would seem he as happy enough with the cashflow over 25 years to build up a little empire of 14 rentals. However, that being said, from the article in the Herald I found his selling seems to be a response to the proposed RTA changes.

"Danny Boeglin, a former Tairua resident who owns 14 flats, units and rental houses was selling them all when the leases end, after 25 years in the business.“We’ve always looked after people but what the government is doing now is taking the financial freedom away over what we want to do with our money. It’s scary.
No mention of cost of insulating/putting in heat pumps there BTW.

Craig

[Bob Kane]

Why shouldn' tentants expect a minimum level of insulation in this country. We've built crap housing for decades, totally unsuited to our climate but maybe its time to, oh I don't know lift the standard a tad. Is that really too much to ask?

Why doesn't the tenant, you know, just go find a better rental?
Being a perfect tenant, they'd be snapped up by any other landlord.
Oh, a better rental would cost more, would it?
So what do you want?
Cheap rentals or better rentals?
Better rentals at a cheap price?
And you want legislation to enforce that?

[Courham]

No, I'd rather not have legislation to enforce it but sometimes a stick is needed as landlords doing it off their own back didn't happen.

Am I happy about all the changes no, but I've accepted that insulating my properties is something I needed to do so over the past several years have done so. What really pissed me off was ripping out perfectly good woodburners to replace them with heat pumps because of Ecans bullsh!t legislation outlawing older burners down where I live- I've done it but wasn't happy about it. i had tenants had access to cheap sources of wood, but couldn't afford the extra power bills so often can't afford to turn on a heat on. they are actually now worse off!

Craig

[Aston]

Can anybody give any further info about these flats in Tairua? I can't find them listed anywhere. Are they sold?

[sidinz]

Yep, judgmental I am.

Why shouldn't tenants expect a minimum level of insulation in this country. We've built crap housing for decades, totally unsuited to our climate but maybe its time to, oh I don't know lift the standard a tad. Is that really too much to ask? If a landlord's margins are too tight for that well maybe the investment wasn't really economic in the first place.



Craig

You've drunk the Kool Aid. I retrofitted insulation in my house. Big mistake. Damper than it used to be, as the insulation holds in the moisture that used to escape. The house can no longer breathe. Add that to tenants who don't heat and won't ventilate, and it's an expensive recipe for disaster.

I get that you're from Timaru, where it can get a tad nippy. But there are whole heaps of houses in other parts that don't really need insulation. But as it happens, I grew up in Chch, in uninsulated bungalows and villas. We were perfectly able to be warm and healthy without insulation, as have been thousands of other Kiwi families. And I certainly don't regard those childhood houses as slums. My mother's house is a great barn of a place. Three storeys, lots and lots of single-glazed glass. Not a skerrit of insulation, but up on the port hills and very warm. Yet when she rents it out, she will be a slumlord, according to you.

As for his strategy being flawed....well, someone has to house the renters in the regions. So unless we want all non-homeowners in the provinces to live on the streets, someone has to own those cheap houses in the sticks. The ones that, because they're so cheap, you can buy a few of, so go for a low-margin, high-volume strategy, a supermarket rather than boutique approach, if you will. I'm sure it's worked perfectly fine for a number of people for a number of years. Until now.

[Courham]

I get that you're from Timaru, where it can get a tad nippy. But there are whole heaps of houses in other parts that don't really need insulation. But as it happens, I grew up in Chch, in uninsulated bungalows and villas. We were perfectly able to be warm and healthy without insulation, as have been thousands of other Kiwi families. And I certainly don't regard those childhood houses as slums. My mother's house is a great barn of a place. Three storeys, lots and lots of single-glazed glass. Not a skerrit of insulation, but up on the port hills and very warm. Yet when she rents it out, she will be a slumlord, according to you.

I too grew up in CHCH. Wood fire in the lounge that barely heated it, freezing cold in the bedrooms yadda yadda. Yes we wore jerseys inside and extra layers but come on the world has moved on so should we. The rest of the world in similar climates to ours are able to build proper houses, that are warm and insulated. Why has it been so hard to do that in NZ for the past 100 years?

And yes if your mother doesn't house have insulation should she choose to rent it out then in my book she is no better than a slumlord.

Sure there are some good, warm houses in NZ built in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s etc. but there are also a hell of a of of cold sh!tboxes that landlords have refused to insulate and unfortunately that has meant that we now all have laws in place to force them to lift their game or force them out.

Have a mate living in a cold, drafty villa in Dunedin,bringing up his 2 kids while he is at uni as an adult student trying to retrain. House was an icebox, no insulation, no heating to speak off and his kids are often ill. He can't afford a warmer place for his family but why shouldn't he be able to expect a minimum amount of insulation and heating to be provided in his home? Personally I wouldn't keep my dog in the place he lives in let alone rent it out to a family but someone is happy to do so. Those are the types of houses this legislation is trying to make liveable for NZ families, I don't have a problem with that.

Craig

[Memphis Turnkey Property]

I grew up in Howick, IN AUCKLAND and we would lie in bed at night and make fog clouds above our heads it was so cold. We also sat on top of a bar heater until out pyjamas were basically searing our skin then run to bed. It's definitely a good idea to have standards and enforce them. The real question is why don't landlords do it anyway. The more difficult part also is managing the exceptions which give the legislation a bad name. For example we have put heat-pumps into several homes where long term tenants didn't want them as the HRV systems meant they didn't get cold.
But overall making landlords supply quality homes is a good idea. And best of all it drives rents up.

[Don't believe the Hype]

Standards are fine but the problem is that takes away individuals choice. The bloke in Dunedin rents that place out of choice. He could choose an insulated place now - no need to wait for legislative change but that would cost more. If he can’t afford the higher cost now when all properties are insulated and heated and upgrades to whatever whim of uncle Phil then I fear he and his kids will be living out of their car which is a whole lot worse.

I earn and and have for over a decade enough money to live in any house in any suburb in the country but have chosen to live in a house in Porirua that is uninsulated. This was my choice for me and my family including 2 young children, one who has been hospitalized with asthma about 5 times but not once since moving into this place. I moved out and this week insulated the property, double glazed the windows then advertised the property for what I consider far too much. The issue is had I not upgraded the property I would have happily rented it out for $100/wk less - but until Phil said no!

[Perry]

He can't afford a warmer place for his family but why shouldn't he be able to expect a minimum amount of insulation and heating to be provided in his home?

Craig - you can't see a dichotomy in what you just said?

DBTH has provided a clue:

Standards are fine but the problem is that takes away individuals choice. The bloke in Dunedin rents that place out of choice. He could choose an insulated place now - no need to wait for legislative change but that would cost more. If he can’t afford the higher cost now when all properties are insulated and heated and upgrades to whatever whim of uncle Phil then I fear he and his kids will be living out of their car which is a whole lot worse.

Yes, you can have such nice things, but only if you can afford them. Or somebody else pays for them.

[Courham]

So poor people’s choice is accept no insulation or live in a car? Is that the society we have come to? Really? No wonder landlords are hated in this country!

Yes, Perry I understand there is a dictomy but still believe that having an insulated home for renters is not a want but should be a basic right for all tenants. We as landlords DO have a social obligation to provide a minimum standard of housing and far too many of us have failed to do so, putting profits over people. So I’ve had to spend 2-3 grand (or less) insulating each property in the grand scheme of things compared to the value of my properties that is peanuts.

Landlords up in arms over having to fork out a bit of cash to upgrade, well let’s just say I’ve not much time or respect for them.

IMO Unregulated capitalism is just as bad, if not worse than, socialism - profits over people is not the answer either. The market, despite what the neoliberal property owning classes would have us believe, has not worked (as it so often fails to) to provide a minimum standard of housing. Yes, I know insulating houses will not make them warmer, I get that. Electricity needs to be more affordable than the current rort but at the end of the day access to housing is a basic human right and we do need to lift the quality of our housing stock!

One could argue that it is the failure of the market based model of expecting it to lead to landlords providing an adequate quality of housing that has led to the government intervening and introducing the healthy homes legislation so in effect we’ve brought t upon ourselves.

I’m currently volunteering in south Tarawa. Most people live around me live in tin shacks without running water, electricity or even a toilet. That is not my wish for my fellow countrymen (or is that now country-persons or country-people?)!

I know my view won’t be popular amongst the right wing, anyone can get ahead with a bit of hard work, mentality of the typical landlord but I for one don’t consider myself a typical landlord.

Craig

[Aston]

So poor people’s choice is accept no insulation or live in a car? Is that the society we have come to? Really? No wonder landlords are hated in this country!

Yes, Perry I understand there is a dictomy but still believe that having an insulated home for renters is not a want but should be a basic right for all tenants. We as landlords DO have a social obligation to provide a minimum standard of housing and far too many of us have failed to do so, putting profits over people. So I’ve had to spend 2-3 grand (or less) insulating each property in the grand scheme of things compared to the value of my properties that is peanuts.

Landlords up in arms over having to fork out a bit of cash to upgrade, well let’s just say I’ve not much time or respect for them.

IMO Unregulated capitalism is just as bad, if not worse than, socialism - profits over people is not the answer either. The market, despite what the neoliberal property owning classes would have us believe, has not worked (as it so often fails to) to provide a minimum standard of housing. Yes, I know insulating houses will not make them warmer, I get that. Electricity needs to be more affordable than the current rort but at the end of the day access to housing is a basic human right and we do need to lift the quality of our housing stock!

One could argue that it is the failure of the market based model of expecting it to lead to landlords providing an adequate quality of housing that has led to the government intervening and introducing the healthy homes legislation so in effect we’ve brought t upon ourselves.

I’m currently volunteering in south Tarawa. Most people live around me live in tin shacks without running water, electricity or even a toilet. That is not my wish for my fellow countrymen (or is that now country-persons or country-people?)!

I know my view won’t be popular amongst the right wing, anyone can get ahead with a bit of hard work, mentality of the typical landlord but I for one don’t consider myself a typical landlord.

Craig

Wow, I think I agree with everything in this post, well done Craig.

I am really loving watching/listening to squirming investors at the moment complaining about the changes to the RTA/CGT/insulation/heating/ etc etc and how it's going to cost several thousand dollars to install heating and insulation into their properties. Interesting that there is no complaints at all about recent capital gains that these same people have made over recent years.


I was speaking with one particular investor recently and he was boasting about the capital gains he had made on each of his various properties, over recent years. These gains totalled approximately $1m. The same investor is grizzling now because he cannot afford to upgrade his properties and will need to borrow to cover the cost, that is such a shame. Incidentally this same person is currently planning additions to his own personal home that will be costing over $450,000.

These people have got a nerve calling themselves landlords, they are not landlords at all, landlords have a social conscience. Most of these people have only one thing of interest to them and that is their own personal net worth and anything that gets in the way of their net worth increasing, as rapidly as possible, is wrong.

[Memphis Turnkey Property]

landlords have a social conscience

That is a strange statement. Landlords are business people. Social conscience is not required, very optional, and often a recipe for failure. Priests have a social conscience hopefully, landlords do not need one.

[AlFa]

...landlords have a social conscience. ...

No they don't, they run a business. If you think otherwise you're delusional as according to your "logic" Countdown needs to sell caviar for a price of potato, petrol station need to sell 98 gas for the price of 91, taxi must cost a bus fair...

[Don't believe the Hype]

So poor people’s choice is accept no insulation or live in a car? Is that the society we have come to? Really?

you sound like self responsibility and pay one’s own way rather than relying on someone else to pick up the tab is a bad thing.

self responsibility is a thing of the past it seems.

not sure about you but I was brought up to live within my means, save for a rainy and don’t be a burden on society. I’m not going to apologize for that.

BTW - I’m not the one forcing someone who can’t afford an insulated house to live in a car. That’s your socialist leaders - uncle Phil and co. I’ve merely distilled the rules being planned into what will play out in our streets.

[Perry]

So poor people’s choice is accept no insulation or live in a car? Is that the society we have come to? Really?

No, Craig. It's a confabulation in your head, somewhere. No one is or has suggested that, at all. (Perhaps a career in sensationalist media beckons?)

E.g. Someone (Artemis?) has mentioned that having the same insulation in a house in Invercargill and Kataia is rampant stupidity. I.e. Gummint normality. Or do you imagine winter temperatures in those two places are similar?

For years, I lived in an uninsulated state house with wooden floors, an open fire and no double glazing and such like and raised two kids with no health problems or undue hospital admissions.

The current hysteria is a fantasy in the heads of gummint neanderthalers who have no historical knowledge. Ideological morons and their pseudo-expert, sycophantic functionaries ruling from the point of invincible ignorance.