Anyone going to Freedom of Speech demonstration Aotea Centre Sat @ 12 14th July 2018?

[mrsaneperson]

Important to get along to voice your opinion on Freedom of Speech in New Zealand.

Freedom of Speech is not just a principal of our society but the fundamental of our whole democracy.

Why care?

Well I'm sure we don't want our country to become like Iran, North Korea , Cuba etc where their is no right to freedom of thought and expression.

I'll be going..

[Perry]

Naughty, Naughty!

Important to get along to voice your opinion on Freedom of Speech in New Zealand.

Freedom of Speech is not just a principal of our society but the fundamental of our whole democracy.

Why care?

Well I'm sure we don't want our country to become like Iran, North Korea , Cuba etc where their is no right to freedom of thought and expression.

I'll be going.

You naughty boy!

Herr Heinrich Goffler will be most displeased.

Beware of after-dark knocks-on-the-door.

If I was in Auckland, I might get along.

I see that the oddly-named Peace Action group is threatening disruptive protest action.

Maybe someone should suggest a name change is appropriate for such a rent-a-crowd lot.

Have fun!

[mrsaneperson]

Just returned from the demonstration which was unfortunately a disappointing turn out of around 100 people. Falun Gong were demonstrating at the same time separately which IMO didn't help.

The 4 speakers were good, one of them being Stephen Berry from the Act Party.

[John the builder]

PC nanny goff

about to burn through another $50,000?

......speech HE doesn't agree with

hint goff - you have no such right

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12091186

why is it so hard

for council to stick to their CORE responsibilities?

council should be spending rates on infrastructure

not vanity projects + legal bills

any news on this? Has commonsense prevailed?

[Perry]

any news on this? Has commonsense prevailed?

No. Goes to court this week in various ways with a hearing set down for Monday.

See here.

[John the builder]

hot off the press but unsure what it means A deal in the back room perhaps?????

http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/axiomatic-media-pty-ltd-t-a-axiomatic-events-v-regional-facilities-auckland-ltd-minute/@@images/fileDecision?r=65.9840127219

[eri]

"Yesterday, I granted the Human Rights Commission leave to intervene, with the consent of all parties."

at a guess

council's very big + expensive spin dr team have told him being taken to court for stifling freedom of speech is a BAD look

esp. when he'll probably lose

his defence seems to be that he wasn't stopping them by telling the world he wouldn't let them speak

because the events people had already done that, by refusing to give them a venue

and goff was simply trying to take the credit for something other people had done

....

clearly he looks like an idiot either way

and chewing through rates defending his right to be our elected idiot wasn't a vote winner either

so

council's very expensive legal team have cleverly gotten the mess out of the expensive, adversarial and very public legal system

and dropped it in their lap of their mates at the human rights commision

now with it firewalled there

they can try and smother it until something bigger drags our attention away

and finally some half-arsed, insincere 'apology' about being 'misunderstood'

puts it all to bed

[Perry]

Hang on. Isn't it the applicants abandoning the quick hearing request?

[Perry]

Aha!

MEDIA RELEASE
MONDAY 25 JULY 2018

Victory for Free Speech Coalition: Council concede Mayor Goff had no power to make speaker ban decision based on political views

The Free Speech Coalition has studied Auckland Council’s defence to the application for judicial review of the Mayor’s claim to ban Molyneux/Southern from Council-owned venues. There is no attempt in the response papers to substantiate any politician’s right to decide who can and can’t be heard in Auckland’s ratepayer provided facilities.

"Free Speech has unequivocally won on the key issue," says Dr David Cumin, a Free Speech Coalition member. "The arrogant claim of power to block what the Mayor calls ‘repugnant’ speech (speech that might offend a person’s religious prejudices) gets no defence from the Council lawyers."

The Council Response concedes:

1. Mayor Goff did not make the decision;
2. He had no right to intervene or make the decision;
3. Regional Facilities Auckland made the decision;
4. RFA would not have acted on the Mayor’s instructions if he had given them;
5. He did not influence the decision-makers;
6. RFA do not and will not discriminate among users on grounds of political preference or concern about causing offence;
7. The decision was instead based on security concerns;
8. Ultimately it was due to fear of what protesters could do;
9. RFA thought that safety was paramount so they did not believe they needed to do more to mitigate the threats or otherwise ensure the Thug’s Veto did not prevail.

"With the Council indicating so clearly that it can’t support the Mayor’s claims, the Free Speech Coalition has won," says Dr Cumin. "New Zealanders have put together their $20s and $50s and $100s, and they’ve called the politician's bluff. They’ve told him they get to decide who they can listen to – not a Mayor spouting slogans about people he’s never met."

"The Free Speech Coalition’s main purpose for next Monday’s urgent application hearing has therefore gone. As such the request for urgent orders and a hearing, has been withdrawn. Focus will now be on the remaining question relating to the Council's duty to stand up to the 'Thugs' Veto'."

"The Coalition was never about supporting the particular speakers, it was about principle, which now the Council has conceded."

"The second issue remains – will officials who want to gag unwelcome political speech now manufacture “safety concerns” to evade the NZ Bill of Rights Act, and the Human Rights Act?"

"All fair-minded New Zealanders will be upset by the apparent effectiveness of the Thugs’ Veto in this case. It may have been against a Council whose Mayor was happy to be threatened, but it has implications throughout New Zealand."

"We think Free Speech Coalition supporters will want us to ensure that a court tells Councils to ensure the Thug’s Veto does not rule in their cities. But that is an issue for a later day, and will be the key issue in the substantive proceedings later in the year, if we decide to press on."

"Auckland Council’s incompetence on this occasion would make it hard for the Court to order that the particular event go ahead, at least at the planned time and venue. We are advised that the compressed urgent timetable and rules about interim applications such as ours mean that it will not be possible to get sufficient evidence before the Court on security/safety issues, and test it."

"Unless the Police volunteer that they can handle anything unlawful the protesters might threaten, a court would be wary of unmanageable interference with the event and its attendees."

"The promoters are responsible people. They see the greater risk created by the Mayor’s incitement. Celebrities without any direct knowledge have been falling over each other to distance themselves from the manufactured bogeymen they were prompted to hate, by the Mayor."

"While it may be fair to tar Auckland Councillors with cowardice in failing to reassert control of Mayor Goff, it is not fair to blame the RFA officers. They have stated their adherence to the non-partisan principles the Free Speech Coalition defends. We welcome this significant victory."

"Both sides should now agree that the question is whether unexamined safety fears can trump fundamental values of free expression. We should agree that defining a duty to overcome the Thug’s Veto is vitally important. That should now be the main issue in the eventual substantive hearing."

Melissa Derby, another spokesperson for the Free Speech Coalition, says "The Mayor was wrong in the decision he made and we’ve ensured no legal precedent was set that makes it okay for an elected official to decide what we can or can’t hear. That is precisely what we wanted to achieve."

Seems like a bit of a hollow victory, to me.

All that seems to have been established is that the High Court is going to be asked if the threat of a demonstration / picket / placard-waving violence is sufficient (pseudo health & safety) grounds for denying a facility to any given speaker[s].

Hhhmmmm: need to add "thugs' veto" to my lexicon.

Peace Action, you say?

Yeah, right.

And are the speakers still coming to NZ?

[mrsaneperson]

One observer succinctly described it as a "hecklers veto" but "thugs veto" is more accurate; if we kowtow its setting a very dangerous precedent.

In an online poll 71% are currently against the statue at Bastion Point, wonder if Goff will cede to that democratic call?

[mrsaneperson]

Full video of the Freedom of Speech demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I7DT7euTvc

[John the builder]

is it true the visit is back on?

how do you find out where?

[mrsaneperson]

is it true the visit is back on?

how do you find out where?

There is a "Free Tommy Robinson" meetup at Aotea Square this Sat, 4th Aug 2018 at 12 . Its related to the Freedom of Speech campaign. Tommy Robinson is currently in jail for exposing the court footage of the Muslim rapists trial in Rotherham , UK. He has been an outspoken critic of Islam for many years and is now paying the price unfortunately.

[Wayne]

Tommy Robinson is currently in jail for exposing the court footage of the Muslim rapists trial in Rotherham , UK. He has been an outspoken critic of Islam for many years and is now paying the price unfortunately.

He isn't paying the price for being outspoken on Islam (which you imply) - he will pay the price for breaking the law.

[mrsaneperson]

He isn't paying the price for being outspoken on Islam (which you imply) - he will pay the price for breaking the law.

Its a bit of both , he is in prison for contempt of court showing court footage of the trial but his sentence is outlandish and the balance needs to be seen of the greater good Tommy is trying to achieve in waking people up to the Islamization of Britain that is growing like a cancer.