Wind power

[Learning]

Solar seems to be the only “free” power option people talk about for residential but what about wind? Has anyone done anything with mini turbines?

I live on a hill in the outskirts of Wellington so I get plenty of wind. Most of my power usage is after the sun has gone down especially in the colder months. So it seems to me that wind power makes much more sense than solar. Why isn’t it more popular?

I’ve heard people say they’re noisy. Really? If you take your desktop fan outside on a windy day and let the breeze turn the blades how much noise does the fan make? Almost nothing.

They’re ugly. Well yes the older style ones are a bit but now you can get cone shaped, mushroom or flying soucer shaped ones and the range of colours are great.

You can get a 500w vertical turbine that stands just over a meter tall in almost any colour you you like. Three of those just inside the back fence would take care of all my background energy consumption for roughly 90% of the year. A similar sized solar array would only generate for roughly 60%.

Council restrictions on height along boundaries can be restrictive but if I brought them in a couple meters from the boundary how high up can I go? Five meters away from the house I wouldn’t need to clear the rooftop just the fence line.

Also the cost of the grid tied controller is up there as there isn’t the competition here yet. There’s plenty from China but I don’t think they’d be compatible with NZ electrical regulations regarding grid tying.

If anyone’s gone this way or has the answers please get in touch.

[Nick G]

Suggest you go in and speak with council. It would be a neat experiment. The height restrictions are in the district plan.

Why not solar and a couple of Tesla/whatever batteries instead?

[Learning]

Why not solar and a couple of Tesla/whatever batteries instead?

Batteries are still years away from being a viable option. Current prices they would never pay for themselves.

[Learning]

Council restrictions on height along boundaries can be restrictive but if I brought them in a couple meters from the boundary how high up can I go?

From the council plan.. 2.5 meters up at the boundary going up at a 45 degree angle up to 8 meters. The vertical turbines are less than a meter wide so no issue there.

[roughy]

Noise is also an issue

[Learning]

Noise is also an issue

Not really. A modern vertical mini turbine produces about 45 dB at full speed. That’s about the same as a demostic fridge. Only a fridge’s noise is contained and bounced around in a small confined space. While the turbine noise of muffled by the wind driving it and is dissapated in an open space.

[roughy]

Just my experience. You sound like you already know what you are talking about.

The one I saw was loud and it was more the wind driving through it. It might have been a cheaper version humming 24/7. The neighbours were not happy!

[Bob Kane]

Not really. A modern vertical mini turbine produces about 45 dB at full speed. That’s about the same as a demostic fridge. Only a fridge’s noise is contained and bounced around in a small confined space. While the turbine noise of muffled by the wind driving it and is dissapated in an open space.

How many kw does it produce?
How much does it cost?

[Learning]

How many kw does it produce?
How much does it cost?

Haven’t got all the figures yet but it looks like a 200w starts about $600, 400w $900 and 600w for about $1200 (+ installation and controller).

[Keithw]

Also the cost of the grid tied controller is up there as there isn’t the competition here yet. There’s plenty from China but I don’t think they’d be compatible with NZ electrical regulations regarding grid tying

Interested in what you base this on, theres plenty of grid tie inverters on ebay as you say, are they really not usable in NZ.

Payback time is still an issue, but if you do it out of interest and anticipation of future rises thats a different story.
Just as solar panels dont always give you the max output, same with turbines, max output will be when a strong wind is blowing, the rest of the time you may only get 50 % of max rating.

for some simple calcs consider this:
at 30c / unit thats 30c per kw hr
that means if you generate 1 kw for one hr you save yourself 30c
a 500 w generator (solar or wind) might give you say 333 watts if you have continuous wind or average daylight (except say 11-3pm say 4 hrs on a really sunny day where you might get max output)
so that means 3 hrs to generate 1 kw
if you had that wind continuously for 24 hrs you generate 8 kw or $2.4
365 days = $875

so if you managed to set up your turbine for less than $875 it will take at least a year before you are saving anything.
remember also that the turbine cost is only part of the story, you also need a tower /mast, cabling, a regulator & batteries if you want to store the power, otherwise a grid tie inverter rated for turbines (theres plenty of chinese grid tie inverters made for solar, but wind ones need to be more tolerant of the peaks when you get a hurricane blow through)

If you want to build one yourself, the F&P washing machine motors can be moded to become generators, but it is the turbines / blade mechanism where the work comes in. They have to be durable in very high winds, have some way of shutting down or feathering in the hurricane, yet still be easy to spin in lower winds.

Then theres the stupid council regs regarding towers/ masts, heights, permits, distance from house, inability to attach to house and make use of the house height and depending on the type of turbine / blades you choose, whether there is any noise or not.

In principle using wind power should make sense, but we (NZ) are not yet set up for using it.

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

Solar seems to be the only “free” power option people talk about

I have solar power. It is not free.

I live on a hill in the outskirts of Wellington so I get plenty of wind. Most of my power usage is after the sun has gone down especially in the colder months. So it seems to me that wind power makes much more sense than solar. Why isn’t it more popular?

Solar makes considerably more sense. Wind turbines need to be mounted with 6 metres vertical clearance from obstacles and about 100m horizontal clearance (figures approximate so don't hold me to them).

It costs 10x the price per Watt.

Over the year it will produce way less power.

Solar is very little maintenace. I clean my array with soapy water and a mop every few months. Wind, however, is not.

Also the cost of the grid tied controller is up there as there isn’t the competition here yet. There’s plenty from China but I don’t think they’d be compatible with NZ electrical regulations regarding grid tying.

Yes, that is right. Off grid solar systems like mine are covered by 4 different electrical regulations. A grid tie solar system is only excluded from the battery related stuff (assuming it does not have a battery bank)

If anyone’s gone this way or has the answers please get in touch.

Very short and easy answer - don't do it (ie: wind). If you really want to be told the long version of the same thing feel free to give me a call. PM me for details.

[Learning]

Solar makes considerably more sense. Wind turbines need to be mounted with 6 metres vertical clearance from obstacles and about 100m horizontal clearance (figures approximate so don't hold me to them).

That's true for the horizontal turbines but the vertical turbines prefer more shelter to protect them for excessive gusts. Perfect for your average residential backyard.

It costs 10x the price per Watt. Over the year it will produce way less power.

10x? Numbers I've put together have solar and wind as pretty even cost to return. Production all depends on environment. Some areas solar will do better, others suit wind. If I could rotate my house 45 degrees then solar would win hands down.

Solar is very little maintenace. I clean my array with soapy water and a mop every few months. Wind, however, is not.

Valid point. I've included 10% repair/replace value in the numbers. Estimated repayment time is 7-8 years.

The picture below is what I've thinking of. No one in Wellington can help. The local companies hide their tails between their legs as soon as you mention Vertical turbines. Horizontal is all they know. Seems only one Auckland company that does this kind of setup in NZ at the mo. And it's battery only, not grid tied.[IMG]www.affordablewindturbines.org/2000-watt-wind-turbine.html[/IMG]

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

The picture below is what I've thinking of. No one in Wellington can help. The local companies hide their tails between their legs as soon as you mention Vertical turbines. Horizontal is all they know. Seems only one

Because enquiries like the above are a dime-a-dozen. I have told you wind is a crapshoot but you believe you know better. Times that by every other tyre kicker who calls up every day.

[Learning]

I’m seeing why hardly anyone does this. The councils and power authorities are so far behind on current technologies. Currently there are only 6 mini inverters approved for connection to the main grid. 5 of them are solar only and the last is for higher power than I’d planned.

I only want to cover my background power consumption. All the day to day stuff you hardly think about. Fridges, tv’s on standby, phones and toothbrushes on charge, etc. All little stuff but adds upto around 40% of your power bill.

I could double the production but almost half of it would go back to the grid at a loss. 30c/kw buy from the grid, 8c/kw sell to the grid.

Back to the drawing board.

[Wayne]

I could double the production but almost half of it would go back to the grid at a loss. 30c/kw buy from the grid, 8c/kw sell to the grid.

Are you saying it would cost you more than 8c/kwh to generate your excess energy?