Could you have to pay back all the rent, if the house is mouldy?

[Rosco]

Even if the tenant caused it?

This is from Waikato Property Investor Associations facebook page today, and is very interesting. Maybe landlords celebrated the district court win a bit early!

We have won the battle but the war isn’t over (Landlords are not safe yet!)
Landlords are celebrating too early. The win in District Court for Dunedin Landlord Vic Inglis is fantastic and a step in the right direction. It will help some other landlords in the short term but will not necessarily apply to all cases. The NZPIF information attached is very useful and you should read through this https://mandrillapp.com/track/click/...OTU3M1wiXX0ifQ
The bigger issue is the new legislation currently going through parliament. In its current form, a provision of the new Residential Tenancies Bill is that rent can be ordered to be repaid if a property is deemed to be unlawful, as per the original interpretation under the Anderson. Landlords must “comply with all requirements in respect of buildings, health and safety under any enactment”. But New Zealand Property Investors Federation Executive Officer Andrew King said how that was defined could be problematic. The Home Improvement Act of 1947 said there could not be mould in any property whether owned or rented. That could clear the way for tenants to demand a rent refund anytime a property became mouldy, even if they caused it themselves. This outcome is not fair or reasonable. “I’m hoping common sense will prevail”.
New Zealand Property Investors Federation (NZPIF) is meeting with the new Minister of Housing, Phil Twyford, to discuss this new legislation and hope to get a fair outcome.

Ross

[Don't believe the Hype]

Might be time for a landlords strike!

If this situation gets out of hand the PI associations around the country should coordinate a day for all their members to issue a no reason 90 day notice for every property they own with the intent of not renting the property once the tenants vacate.

once that has been done the association then needs to be clear with the government on what changes to legislation need to be made within the 90 day period or face half the country having nowhere to live.

the reality is that landlords provide an essential service and if they organize and collectively withdraw that service they can send a powerful message.

now I understand that many LL's can't afford to be without the rental income so many wouldn't take that action as they see it as too risky but if there is a high risk of being forced to refund rents the risk of not having income from a property is equally high

[Nzdan]

I’m on the fence, on one hand it’s not hard to open the windows every day to air out the house but on the other hand sometimes that’s not enough.

A few years back my partner and I rented a place that literally cried 24/7. We both left for work 6 am and got home 6pm, would open the windows for 20 minutes and wipe the windows with a towel every morning before leaving. Still had to clean mould off the walls periodically.

Landlord refused to install double tongue window latches or security stays which I think would have made a huge difference.

But I definitely think a full refund of rent is way way way overkill. My suggestion would be a notice to comply, failure to comply within x days would result in a 10% reduction in rent until there’s compliance. If all practical measures have been undertaken to solve the issue and it’s still there then send the bill to the tenants because they’re obviously useless.

[Rosco]

Might be time for a landlords strike!

If this situation gets out of hand the PI associations around the country should coordinate a day for all their members to issue a no reason 90 day notice for every property they own with the intent of not renting the property once the tenants vacate.

once that has been done the association then needs to be clear with the government on what changes to legislation need to be made within the 90 day period or face half the country having nowhere to live.

the reality is that landlords provide an essential service and if they organize and collectively withdraw that service they can send a powerful message.

now I understand that many LL's can't afford to be without the rental income so many wouldn't take that action as they see it as too risky but if there is a high risk of being forced to refund rents the risk of not having income from a property is equally high

The issue is that such a small number of landlords are actually members of the Property Investment associations.

For the NZPIF to fight efficiently and to really have some leverage with government it needs a lot more members! In my opinion its a no brainer to join your local Property Investor Association for around $260 per year, even if it is just to help NZPIF reason with the government.

Ross

[Rosco]

I’m on the fence, on one hand it’s not hard to open the windows every day to air out the house but on the other hand sometimes that’s not enough.

A few years back my partner and I rented a place that literally cried 24/7. We both left for work 6 am and got home 6pm, would open the windows for 20 minutes and wipe the windows with a towel every morning before leaving. Still had to clean mould off the walls periodically.

Landlord refused to install double tongue window latches or security stays which I think would have made a huge difference.

But I definitely think a full refund of rent is way way way overkill. My suggestion would be a notice to comply, failure to comply within x days would result in a 10% reduction in rent until there’s compliance. If all practical measures have been undertaken to solve the issue and it’s still there then send the bill to the tenants because they’re obviously useless.

The other side to this, is what if you are paying a really discounted rent? Say your property example should have had rent of $600 per week, but due to the issues you were renting for $400. Does the $200 per week discount not make up for the issues, and in a fair market both parties are agreeing to this?

Ross

[artemis]

The 2018 census has questions about housing including mould present. Readers will not be surprised at the usual suspects who pushed for these questions to be included. Nothing to do with millions in research funding, especially if they can get the government to collect the data for them. Nice work if you can get it.

By the by the Tenancy Services website pretty much comes down to most mould being the way tenants live. As flyernzl succinctly said - life incompetent.

[artemis]

The other side to this, is what if you are paying a really discounted rent? Say your property example should have had rent of $600 per week, but due to the issues you were renting for $400. Does the $200 per week discount not make up for the issues, and in a fair market both parties are agreeing to this?

Ross

Yes we have two properties that leak in very specific weather conditions 2 or 3 times a year. There is a plan to remedy. Meantime there was full disclosure to the tenants from the outset, and in the TA, decent rent discount, dehumidifier supplied and a commercial carpet dryer made available on request.

[Rosco]

By the by the Tenancy Services website pretty much comes down to most mould being the way tenants live. As flyernzl succinctly said - life incompetent.

But under the new Act going through, it changes the rules and the outcome could be very different! Mould becomes unlawful under The Home Improvement Act of 1947, therefore any Mould under the new Act could cause all the rent to be due back to the Tenant.

Ross

[Viking]

But under the new Act going through, it changes the rules and the outcome could be very different! Mould becomes unlawful under The Home Improvement Act of 1947, therefore any Mould under the new Act could cause all the rent to be due back to the Tenant.

Ross

Well i gotta tell yous all the the more you warm the houses and seals them up in humid conditions the more mould you will get.

Have never been busier than this last few months cleaning mouldy household items.

Its what we do.

Never find it in the fridge.

Was in a very old villa just this last Thursday. White curtains been there 19 years and while grubby and dusty no mould. House has no insulation 12 ft high studs and pit sawn cladding. Client said that it can be cold sometimes in the winter but the fire soon fixes that. The house is surrounded by trees.

Suggested they not put in any insulation just wear a jersey if they want to keep the house nice.

This is the second house like this in the last couple of weeks. The other one had installed insulation and all her curtains and other things had gone mouldy this year.


All these so called experts are talking through their backside. They have no idea at all.

[Perry]

All these so called experts are talking through their backside. They have no idea at all.

The problem for LLs is that all those 'experts' get listened to and heeded.

That's despite x being an unknown quantity
and
spurt being a drip under pressure.

[Lego_Squared]

Might be time for a landlords strike!

If this situation gets out of hand the PI associations around the country should coordinate a day for all their members to issue a no reason 90 day notice for every property they own with the intent of not renting the property once the tenants vacate.

once that has been done the association then needs to be clear with the government on what changes to legislation need to be made within the 90 day period or face half the country having nowhere to live.

the reality is that landlords provide an essential service and if they organize and collectively withdraw that service they can send a powerful message.

now I understand that many LL's can't afford to be without the rental income so many wouldn't take that action as they see it as too risky but if there is a high risk of being forced to refund rents the risk of not having income from a property is equally high

I admire the tough talk, but surely you can see that the real outcome of that action would be landlords swinging by the neck from trees and lamp posts all around the country.

And if you did manage to escape with your life, the response from a Labour government would be more likely to confiscate/nationalise your property.

[Perry]

But keep in mind the 90 day notice period.

[Don't believe the Hype]

I admire the tough talk, but surely you can see that the real outcome of that action would be landlords swinging by the neck from trees and lamp posts all around the country.

And if you did manage to escape with your life, the response from a Labour government would be more likely to confiscate/nationalise your property.

i doubt very much this action would result in lynch mobs or government nationalization of property.

Just last week in Wellington the train workers went on strike due to their pay rise being seen as too low. Not one of them was killed for the inconvenience they caused almost everyone in Wellington - not just train users. However they drew attention to their issue.

It would however highlight the important role landlords play in the community and might just change the narrative from greedy evil LLs to one where LL's role in respected.

[Perry]

Re: The Leopards

There's still the problem of - let's say - solidarity.

I've no idea what percentage of LLs are not members of the NZPIF, but I understand that it's a large figure. Large as in more are not members than are.

I suspect that those non-members see NZPIF m'ship as adding no value to their rental business.

Maybe - just maybe - this is a chance for the NZPIF to change its spots?

[Viking]

The problem for LLs is that all those 'experts' get listened to and heeded.

That's despite x being an unknown quantity
and
spurt being a drip under pressure.

Very true and just today.

by Gareth Vaughan | Sat, 25/11/2017 - 11:51
up0

Phil Twyford has issued this statement today;

Minister commissions stocktake of New Zealand’s housing crisis

Housing and Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford has commissioned three of New Zealand’s leading experts to provide an independent stocktake of the housing crisis. “For too long, the previous Government refused to accept the housing crisis and establish the scale of the problem we face,” says Minister Twyford. “For instance, it was only once the Labour-led Government came to office that we learned MBIE’s official figures show a nationwide shortfall of 71,000 houses and that projections show house building would fall if not for KiwiBuild. “The previous government never acknowledged or accepted the official numbers, and also refused to accept its own official definition of homelessness.

“Shamubeel Eaqub, Philippa Howden-Chapman, and Alan Johnson are among New Zealand’s foremost experts on housing.

Their insight will be invaluable. “This report will provide an authoritative picture of the state of housing in New Zealand today, drawing on the best data available. It will put firm figures on homelessness, the state of the rental market, the decline of homeownership, and other factors in the housing crisis. “The Labour-led Government is already pushing ahead quickly with initiatives to make housing more affordable and healthy, including banning overseas speculators, passing the Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill, cancelling the state house selloff, and setting up KiwiBuild. This report will help the Government refine and focus that work where it is most needed. “I have instructed officials to provide the experts with any and all information they request. The years of spin and denial are over,” says Phil Twyford. The report will be due before Christmas. Note: ·Shamubeel Eaqub is a respected independent economist and commentator, and author of Generation Rent. ·Philippa Howden-Chapman is Professor of Public Health at Otago University. She has led groundbreaking research on the health impacts of cold, damp housing. ·Alan Johnson is Senior Policy Analyst for the Salvation Army and author of The Salvation Army's State of the Nation report, which highlights effects of the housing crisis.

Liked this bit though.



1

Cool, Chinese city builders will build new cities so we can sell them to new residents. Great idea, we'll make millions. Come on now, who is he kidding?

So Phil basically says they will override planning laws and the RMA at will, compulsory purchase as they see fit, use foreign builders and persecute landlords.
What could possibly go wrong?

• Log in or register to post comments

by Averageman | Sat, 25/11/2017 - 14:15

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/91065/new-housing-minister-phil-twyford-talks-tough-property-speculators-and-opens-door

Have a listen to Twyfords interview on the page. Fearsom.