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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    41

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    I don't think you can trespass TNFH from your side of the drive. Joe has paid for his section and the rights that go with it which include easement rights over your half. Thus if Joe gives permission to TNFH to exercise his rights under the property title he purchased to go over the full width of the drive I believe he legally can along with any of Joe's other mates.

    You could possible try to make a claim that TNFH can't use your side of the drive but you wouldn't be able to do that in the cheap Disputes Court as they have no power over the Property Law Act, so you would have to make that claim in the District Court. Thus it would only be TNFH's ignorance of the law that would keep him off your side of the drive.

  2. #32

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    Hi Nan,

    Thanks for taking time out to reply.

    That's a very insightful take on it. I'm keen to know more. There must be some case law covering this situation? For me, I think it hangs on what is considered bona fide business. Obviously, there is a clear intention that not just anyone can use a RoW. [deleted] I'm keen to know the hiearchy of rights, and where trespass fits in.

    I know the Police are not renowned for their knowledge of the law, but when I called them, they eventually (same day, at least) came out and spoke to TNFH. Of course I don't know what was said, but I know TNFH doesn't like Police involvement and doesn't seem to want more of it.

    After talking to him, the Police came over and played "Good cop, Bad cop" with me, and one of them was a jerk. He claimed that the statement: "My nail gun might accidentally fire in your direction" is not a threat, though his partner, without directly contradicting him, was much more supportive. I suspect it might actually have been a racist thing, but who can say?

    Anyway, by the time they showed up, I had already trespassed him, and the Police at the local station accepted and filed my Trespass Notice along with my Affidavit of Service. But TNFH thinks he's free to walk on Joe's half if not the entire width, over the rear section between his house and Joe's house, which he definitely is not, Trespass Notice or not.

    I know this is completely separate, but under Family Law these days, a man can be completely barred from his own property and even from access to his tools of trade, if his wife or partner makes a good enough allegation of Domestic Violence against him. And it doesn't even have to be proven before it can take effect... Some things are changing, at least.

    Anyway, even if Joe can authorise TNFH to use the RoW, TNFH cannot do it from his own, recently self-created accessway from his own property to our RoW. He can only do it by coming in at the road end, which would defeat his purpose entirely. I know this much is established law. A lawyer has confirmed that.

    Oddly though, he showed that he thought he wasn't free to drive over it from his house a couple of weeks ago. It took Joe to come over in a (mock?) rage and threaten to punch me and force the issue before anything happened. My wife stepped in between, and he (Joe) calmed right down in a big hurry and later apologised, but it's still not cricket. He forced the issue, and I feel we are being victimised.

    If I have to go to the High Court, I'm prepared to do that. But of course, I want to know all the ins and outs and relevant cases beforehand!

    Anyway, thanks again, I will think on and look into it further.

    I very much look forward to your future input.

    Cheers!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    9,592

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nan View Post
    I don't think you can trespass TNFH from your side of the drive. Joe has paid for his section and the rights that go with it which include easement rights over your half. Thus if Joe gives permission to TNFH to exercise his rights under the property title he purchased to go over the full width of the drive I believe he legally can along with any of Joe's other mates.
    That would surprise me really.
    For friends to visit Joe I can see how that works but TNFH lives there and is using PTs bit of ROW to access HIS house not Joe's.
    PT has an arguable case at least.

  4. #34

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    Hello All,

    Just by way of an update, this afternoon I've been down to visit the Council to try to discuss the now deranged water runoff issue, and the fact that the boundary line and beyond (into our side) has been concreted over.

    [Fencing? Nah, not our problem!] Actually, that is not quite true, as I have already found out.

    It surprises me how little interest they take in things like this. They are supposed to enforce the rules and bylaws, but when people turn up with relevant information, they don't take the opportunity to collect it. All I got was a name and some contact details of someone in Council with whom I can take it further. It's up to me to keep pushing the matter, if I want and can be bothered to.

    On top of that, their website is so unhelpful. I can't find any rules around what permits / consents etc are required before covering your property in concrete.

    There is a Fencing procedure Tool, but even that didn't work for me, as you need a Login to find out what Zone you are in before you can proceed. Why it needs an account for this...

    BUT.... I did learn one useful piece of information. Still don't know where it's written, so I'm gonna write it here.

    If you lay more than 30m2 of concrete on your property, there are rules to comply with...

    The runoff has to be contained, there have to be approved catch pits, AND the water has to be fed into the public (waste?)water system. Not sure which system exactly, whether it's storm water or sanitary sewer, but apparently it's compulsory. An Engineer I know disagrees with that policy, says it's causing loss of the water table, but that's the current policy / rule. But based on his experience, a detention tank is probably also essential (required). Oh dear.

    Anyway, it did cheer me up a little. Seems like my little 4x2-waving friend might be in a spot of bother, since the Council Building Consents guy confirmed there is no new driveway waste water connection, and said, looking at the aerial photo, "It looks like more than 30m2..." Read between the lines, my son.

    Using the old GISviewer, it was possible to calculate areas using the Drawing Tool, but that function seems to have disappeared in the new GeoMaps implementation, which is a bit annoying. Maybe it's there, but I couldn't find it. Nevertheless, I was able to estimate the area using the Line Draw Tool, which reports distances between end points. That nice new coloured concrete yard... At my most conservative estimate, is at least 100m2. Probably closer to 150. Oh dear. AND he's probably exceeded the 60% site coverage limit / rule.

    People living in glasshouses really shouldn't threaten their neighbours with physical violence!

    Maybe getting those fences replaced won't be as hard as I thought.

    We may never get to find out how the Fencing Act is supposed to work in a case like this...

    Will keep you updated.


 

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