Kitchen moving across the hallway - consent?

[Wayne]

Which leaves the obvious inference that if you move the sink or remodel the kitchen in a different place you do need consent.

Not obvious to me.
Don't increase the number of sanitary fixtures, don't interfere with looad bearing or bracing walls.
Same distance to gully so no need to move gully (minor movement is acceptable anyway).
Sounds OK to me.
Saying a new kitchen in the same space is OK doesn't mean a new kitchen in a different space is not OK.
After all they say that moving the laundry into another room was OK so moving the tub within the same space isn't?

[Wayne]

He insisted I did, as I was taking out a 'shower over bath' and putting in a separate bath and shower. The exemptions clearly state that this doesn't count as adding a separate sanitary unit and I had to convince him of that as he didn't believe me.

And I found it.
You are right.
The act doesn't clearly state is but the guidence doc does.

Removing a bath with a shower over it, and replacing this with a new proprietary shower enclosure and a new bath within the existing bathroom space. As the existing bath/shower arrangement has two sanitary fixtures, each fixture can be replaced and relocated without the need for a building consent.

I'm still not sure how a shower over a bath has 2 sanitary fixtures (I would have thought only one waste outlet) but they say so.
Maybe a 'sanitary fixture' is more than just the waste?

[Shalodge]

Saying a new kitchen in the same space is OK doesn't mean a new kitchen in a different space is not OK.

Then why qualify the new kitchen statement? Why not just say a moving the kitchen is ok and why specifically drill down on the issue of "leaving the sink in the same position". If you can move a sink around the house without consent then why mention it at all?

I think you are intermixing parts of Schedule 1. When it comes to sanitary fixtures .. consent is needed to move them to different rooms. I don't know enough about the building code to be certain but I would speculate that kitchens and bathrooms have different specified systems under the building code and there are health issues not just building performance issues. I could be wrong.

[Scouser]

The act of moving the kitchen cupboards etc doesn't need a consent (so long as it doesn't require any structual changes outside of sched 1).
The same number of plumbing fixtures apply and distance to gully is the same. Done by register plumber doesn't need consent.
So on what grounds would the council have for requiring a consent?

As for matching the LIM - I have a house that struggles to have the outline of the house on file let alone what it inside!

If the LIM is nonsense then just find a builder who is happy to do the work without a consent. As I think I said above there is so much potential interpretation that it's a matter of judgement. It depends on who does the interpretation. The council will tend to be stricter so if it's doubtful and no later risk then stay away from them is my approach.

The advice I got was if I was moving a room then that was probably a bridge too far - I did amalgamate some 'rooms' and move the shower and loo within that area but did not change the physical location of the overall room - that did not require a consent according to a decent builder (and most of the others (but not all) I spoke to).

[Scouser]

And I found it.
You are right.
The act doesn't clearly state is but the guidence doc does.

I'm still not sure how a shower over a bath has 2 sanitary fixtures (I would have thought only one waste outlet) but they say so.
Maybe a 'sanitary fixture' is more than just the waste?

The 2 sanitary fixtures are the water in - you have 2 inlets. However, I added a wand shower to a bath and the builder/plumber had no problem with that - as said in another post here it's all about interpretation.

[Wayne]

The 2 sanitary fixtures are the water in - you have 2 inlets. However, I added a wand shower to a bath and the builder/plumber had no problem with that - as said in another post here it's all about interpretation.

Interesting because the Building Act doesn't define 'sanitary fixture' so you have to go to the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayer Act and they say

sanitary fixture—
(a) means a fixture that is used, or intended to be used, for sanitation; and
(b) includes a bath, a shower, a sink, a basin, a toilet pan, a bidet, a urinal,
and a laundry tub

Doesn't really matter - they say it is exempt so best not to argue against a good thing.

[Shalodge]

The 2 sanitary fixtures are the water in - you have 2 inlets. However, I added a wand shower to a bath and the builder/plumber had no problem with that - as said in another post here it's all about interpretation.

Sanitary fixtures are defined in the Plumbers Gasfitters Act..

sanitary fixture—
(a)

means a fixture that is used, or intended to be used, for sanitation; and


(b)

includes a bath, a shower, a sink, a basin, a toilet pan, a bidet, a urinal, and a laundry tub

So the bath is a sanitary fixture and so is the shower over it . Separating them doesn't change the number.. Its not about water inlets.

[Wayne]

So the bath is a sanitary fixture and so is the shower over it . Separating them doesn't change the number.. Its not about water inlets.

I sorta worked that out.
Sorta!
I was thinking outlets (drains) really (inlets didn't make sense to me - would open a real can of worms (add a plumbed water filter and need a permit))
But 'fixtures' is the whole thing which makes sense.
Thanks Shalodge - tricky stuff this.

[Nick G]

I imagine you will need consent but a licensed tradesperson should be able to clarify. Are you getting working drawings done, as your designer could offer feedback too.

[Bobsyouruncle]

Isn't it completely ridiculous that something so basic is so vague? Unbelievable.

[SHANEHANE]

Isn't it completely ridiculous that something so basic is so vague? Unbelievable.

Crazy aye!? Hence the question, but I guess the outcome is that multiple people have read the code and guidelines and are all interpreting it their own way... or as is the human way 'interpreting it the way you want it to be'...


Personally I interpret it that it's not a big deal and that I can do the work without a consent - although no single phrase says I can move a kitchen without CCC.


The council would likely say that it is a big deal and I should pay them lots of money - although no single phrase says I can't move a kitchen without CCC.

[Bobsyouruncle]

Personally if my own home just do it. I have owned many, many houses where the council file bore little resemblance to what was standing. i know it's far more detailed these days but as long as the work is done TO CODE then any future owner can get it paperwork legal if they care.
My best one was a file showing a double garage and the property had a 5 bed 2 story house on it.

[sidinz]

Personally if my own home just do it. I have owned many, many houses where the council file bore little resemblance to what was standing.

My own home, built in the 60s, wasn't built to the plans on file. At some stage between lodging the plans and completing the build, the developer decided to swap the sink bench and windows onto another wall, no doubt to take advantage of the views. The other unit was done to the original floor plan as it didn't have those views.

Lots of stuff happened in the days before excessive red tape.

[Wayne]

Lots of stuff happened in the days before excessive red tape.

Back when the plans for a house fitted on a couple of A4 sheets.
More timber is used for the many copies of copious plans than the framing I reckon.

[dogstar00052]

Hi Team,
Sorry to resurrect this old thread but this is the best discussion I have seen on building consent requirements regarding "sanitary fixtures".

I am in a similar dilemma in that I want to convert a bath to a bath/shower. I don't believe a building consent is required & I won't be obtaining one
as a bath/shower is in my opinion 1 sanitary fixture that can be used for duel purposes. The fact that a faucet contains multiple spouts is does not constitute
a second sanitary fixture IMHO

Sanitary fixtures are defined in the Plumbers Gasfitters Act..

sanitary fixture—
(a)

means a fixture that is used, or intended to be used, for sanitation; and


(b)

includes a bath, a shower, a sink, a basin, a toilet pan, a bidet, a urinal, and a laundry tub

I guess it comes down to interpretation.
I am taking the interpretation a sanitary fixture comprises
1) A faucet (1 valve)
2) A water catchment mechanism ( I.e a bath tub)
3) A drain

Once again a lot of ambiguity open to interpretation.