CCC issue - POST Earthquake

[mberi]

Thanks John. Our CPU covers us till August only though

[John the builder]

I dont see anything in the act that says a CPU is limited by time? where are you getting this from?

[mberi]

Hi John,
Its on the form:

'Expiry-05/08/2017 - "At which stage a Code of Compliance is required"'

[John the builder]

The act just says that nothing in respect to a CPU relieves the owner from the obligation under s92(1) to apply for a CCC.............

the obligation is to apply you cannot be responsible when council wont issue as they are the decision-maker not you

i have a friend who could look at this form for you if you care to private message it to me. It sounds like another example of council imposing policy under the guise of the public interest (and they llike to pressure owners to do work towards a CCC....because otherwise they cannoy make you get one (and they know this)

[mberi]

Hey John thanks so much, look forward to hearing from your friend.

[John the builder]

Hey John thanks so much, look forward to hearing from your friend.

there is no provision in the Act or the prescribed form for expiry date so we are not sure what is going on here.(but common) This may be yet another Act providion misused or abused by councils? to force owners to get a CCC issued when they are the ones holding up the works?

[mberi]

I would need something I can quote to them though wouldnt I

[mberi]

Do you mean that expiry date should not be on the form, but has been added?

[Shalodge]

JTB the problem is that if the premises holds or applies for a liquor licence part of the requirment in the application is:

(

f) except in the case of an application relating to a conveyance, must be accompanied by a certificate by the territorial authority that the proposed use of the premises meets requirements of the Resource Management Act 1991 and of the building code

.

Section 100(f) Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012 http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...tml#DLM3339579

[John the builder]

JTB the problem is that if the premises holds or applies for a liquor licence part of the requirment in the application is:

(.

Section 100(f) Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012 http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...tml#DLM3339579

I am aware of the provisions and why
Compliance with the building act does noit require an existing building to be code compliant.
an existing building can be non compliant and comply with the buildimng act.

there are public safety issues relating to specified systems that should of course be up to date and working and this is why these issues are covered by comp[liance scahedule and BWOF. The public need to know the bildg is safe but this doesnt extend to code compliance.

Only these issues should be related to a Certificate of public use as the public should be safety issue and in a CPU. It is therefore nonsenxe to have an expiry date?

This should not allow the council to use a big stick to force an owner to get a CCC (when the building act doesnt compell this) hen the council might be the unreasonable party responsible for the CCC not been issued.

[Shalodge]

an existing building can be non compliant and comply with the buildimng act

That sounds a little nonsensical but I understand what you mean ..It can comply with the building act in all respects and still not have a CCC. Yes got that .... But how can anyone know that unless there is a CCC? Try rocking up to a Licensing hearing and saying, "The building fully complies with the building act its just that we don't have a certificate that says that".

You will get exactly as far as if you say to a traffic cop, "My car fully complies with the Transport regulations, its just that I don't have a WOF"!

[John the builder]

That sounds a little nonsensical but I understand what you mean ..It can comply with the building act in all respects and still not have a CCC. Yes got that .... But how can anyone know that unless there is a CCC? Try rocking up to a Licensing hearing and saying, "The building fully complies with the building act its just that we don't have a certificate that says that".

You will get exactly as far as if you say to a traffic cop, "My car fully complies with the Transport regulations, its just that I don't have a WOF"!

S
in order to get a CCC issued you have to satisfy the council. That is often the impossible task. It is self evident that something does not work but how do you prove building performance to someone who doesnt want to??

Tha analogy with car is flawed. It is an offense to not have a WoF but it is also an offense to have a a defective car (say worn tyres) even though you have a WOF
the licensing people should be assessing compliance for the relevant requirements related to a premises such as saniraty and hygiene and fire safty requirements not whether a bracing sheet is fixed correctly which is what the CCC tells you.

The sale of alcohol act doesnt say full compliance and no building over only a few years technically will be as stads change and work wears. It say requirements under the building act It isnt a requirement to maintain compliance except for specified systems....

[mberi]

John, thank you very much for putting me on to your friend as he isy responsive and supportive, and that is much more than I asked for in this forum. x

[Shalodge]

JTB .. We have several situations where building owners did not get CCC at the time homes were completed but are now asked council to provide this many years down the track. The consensus is that CCC should reflect standards at the time the BC was obtained not standards at the time CCC was given. The problem is that buildings and systems deteriorate and wear as you have said. What happens then?

I issue liquor licenses for WDC and if a new application cannot show BA compliance then we cannot issue the licence. Given situations like Leaky homes and now Grenfell tower no one will be doing anything less. If they cannot provide a CCC we are allowing a 'certificate' signed by a building inspector but that might change. The issue is of course, that where you have the public consuming alcohol, on premises set up for that you need some assurance that balconies are not going to collapse or cladding burst into flames and that the building is essentially safe.

[John the builder]

JTB .. We have several situations where building owners did not get CCC at the time homes were completed but are now asked council to provide this many years down the track. The consensus is that CCC should reflect standards at the time the BC was obtained not standards at the time CCC was given. The problem is that buildings and systems deteriorate and wear as you have said. What happens then?
I issue liquor licenses for WDC and if a new application cannot show BA compliance then we cannot issue the licence. Given situations like Leaky homes and now Grenfell tower no one will be doing anything less. If they cannot provide a CCC we are allowing a 'certificate' signed by a building inspector but that might change. The issue is of course, that where you have the public consuming alcohol, on premises set up for that you need some assurance that balconies are not going to collapse or cladding burst into flames and that the building is essentially safe.

The code is a perfromance based document not standards based that is why it is tough when you are assessing older construction subject to wear and tear
Often the reason that CCC are not issued is because the council isnt satisfied suffieciently to issue one. This isnt compliance issue it is a confidence issue.

You cant make council issue one but at the same time owners dont have to get one either (though this is prerfferred)
You have to have a proper understanding of BA compliance. Council cannot act unless dangerous , insanitary or a compliance schedule is involved for say fire alarms etc.

Mentioning Grenfell is the latest council ploy. This is precisely why councils have to manage their risk and not use spurious means to scare monger. or impose onerous conditions on an owner.
How would you know a balcony was compliant?
are you telling me that every building before 1992 cannot get a license? (because CCC's were not available then)
So you dont license where timber weatherboards are used? I doubt this.

The issue should be public safety and that is all the council should be concerned about