Stats NZ: 10% have 60% of country's net worth

[Bobsyouruncle]

Which has nothing to do with the fact that over 50% of your income is lost in tax and CPF making Singapore not a good example of an alternative to New Zealand. Not to mention their insanely expensive real estate compared to Auckland.

[Don't believe the Hype]

50% isn't LOST - the CPF part 36% CPF is compulsory savings that you get when you decide to leave SG so you can DISCOUNT this from the comparison - while you can't access the fund immediately they're still your funds that you can access the day you leave Changi for the last time

Let's to back to the discussion - it's about people on medium to high incomes ~$150k - SG tax on this level of income is ~10%

Singapore - 5 years on $150k = $90k tax
New Zealand - 5 years on $150k = $210k tax

Based on this comparison of a good income earner, in NZ the tax is $120k over 5 yrs more No comparison - the question now comes down to cost of living in SG vs. NZ

You mention cost of housing - which can be high if you want to live the rock star life - which you can also do in NZ and that will cost you even more than in SG... Equally it can be significantly cheaper and other than housing EVERYTHING else is far cheaper in SG - Can of Coke $1.20, Taxi $5-$10, MRT $1-$2 to anywhere on the island, meals to eat out from $10 pp... i could go on.

You can talk theory all you like... i can talk facts given my time there... i managed to save a few dollars along the way

[Bobsyouruncle]

I didn't say it was lost but you can't access it so it keeps you poor and makes for a bad comparison to NZ.

Plus cost of accommodation is a killer.

Rent Per Month

Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre	3,136.11 S$
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre	1,970.64 S$
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre	6,180.41 S$
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre	3,459.50 S$
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre	23,472.76 S$
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre	12,184.53 S$

[Anthonyacat]

Globally, things are pretty relative really. In places where taxes are lower, prices just magically seem to be higher. I've got friends in Dubai who cry when they go to their stores and buy imported UK products with big "RRP £1" printed on them, and pay around £4 in local currency equivalent.

I was looking at Hong Kong not long ago, because there's opportunity to earn some massive salaries; around $1M HKD per year (maybe $180k NZD, ish) but it looks like my annual rent would be more than half the salary.

[Bobsyouruncle]

Yes, the only Asian country I have spent time in that doesn't have ridiculous real estate prices is Malaysia.

[Nick G]

ability to save is not a function of income level

When I'm next in Wellington I'd like to buy you a beer and shake your hand.

looks like my annual rent would be more than half the salary.

Probably not true, if you want to live like a westerner in an asian country then sure, but with a bit of sacrifice and willingness to compromise a little on comforts the bankers hold dear you should be able to make it work. Also Asia is fun.

I got ahead by earning $140K a year in Tokyo with my contribution to rent and bills around $30K. Bloody high taxes in Japan tho.

[Perry]

Keep Smiling Atlas

Individuals are carrying the tax burden
3 June 2019

Our tax brackets, or thresholds, have been the same since 2008, when the highest rate was adjusted up from $60,000. You can also look at it this way. In 2008, only 335,000 people paid the top tax rate. By the 2016-2017 tax year it had almost doubled to 665,000 people.

And now, people earning over $70,000 pay 63 per cent of all income tax.

I couldn't help but think about this as I browsed the Wellbeing Budget.

And what portion of the total tax take does income tax comprise, I wonder? (Excluding stealth taxes, aka SOE dividends, etc.)

[Anthonyacat]

Hey Perry

Proportion of tax take from income tax has dropped markedly in that time. See table below, hope it comes out looking right.

Year to 30 June:	2008	2009	2010	2011	2012	2013	2014	2015	2016	2017
GST	18.5%	20.5%	24.9%	26.8%	26.7%	26.1%	25.9%	26.1%	25.9%	25.9%
Individual Income Tax	59.7%	58.7%	57.7%	54.5%	53.4%	52.9%	53.4%	54.2%	53.2%	51.8%
Company Income Tax	21.0%	20.0%	16.6%	17.9%	19.1%	20.4%	20.1%	19.1%	20.3%	21.8%
Duties & Other Taxes	0.8%	0.7%	0.8%	0.8%	0.7%	0.7%	0.6%	0.6%	0.6%	0.6%
Total Income Tax (Indiv + Coy)	80.7%	78.8%	74.3%	72.4%	72.6%	73.3%	73.5%	73.3%	73.5%	73.6%

Source for raw data (I did the table above): https://www.classic.ird.govt.nz/abou...collected.html

[McDuck]

Also every time this sort of discussion comes up I am reminded about the joke of the 10 men in the restaurant.

The cost of dinner
Each and every day, 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner together. The bill
for all 10 comes to $100 each day. If the bill were paid the way we pay
our taxes, the first four would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the
sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The
10th man – the richest – would pay $59. Although the 10 men didn’t share
the bill equally, they all seemed content enough with the arrangement –
.

Good point.
I like it.
Now what if it was closer to real life.
The four eating for free weren't sitting at the same table as the rest.
They were out back on a couple of beer crates, with soup made from the drained water from the other meals.
The middle guys had bread and a low priced meal,n ot in the vip section either.
The rich guy had steak and lobster, but didn't eat much, to make room for the $500 dollar bottle of wine.
They were all equally needed to keep the town running smoothly.
Now, who should pay what?

[Perry]

Hey Perry

Proportion of tax take from income tax has dropped markedly in that time. See table below, hope it comes out looking right.

So GST up by about the same amount as income tax is done.

Would that be a 'zero sum game' for wage and salary earners?