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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    147

    Default

    Hmm.

    Anybody noticed that the search method for TT tribunal decisions has changed?

    2016 decisions are no longer indexed (or searchable) by Year/Number/Location, but by a single seven digit number. And there seems to be a large gap between successive numbers.

    Which makes it more difficult to 'page through' recent decisions, as you've got to type in a lot more internet addresses, one by one, before you get a TT decision to read through.

    I don't suppose it has anything to do with posts like my original one above?

    You know, posts which try to record decisions of substance the TT has made, and thus establish some sort of precedent / history on which future decisions can be measured against.

    You know, as happens with judicial rulings. They're largely based on preceding decisions and interpretations of the law, unless it becomes apparent that some aspect (of the law) hasn't been considered in the courts before.

    Precedent. A basic part of our justice system.

    Just saying.

  2. #12

    Default

    BigWal if that's the case then how are landlords supposed to protect themselves from bad tenants if they wont be able to look them up on the database?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    147

    Default

    No mate - you can still look up individual people / companies / addresses. No problem with that.

    It just makes it harder to read through all successive (i.e. a range of) TT decisions to find anything more than bread and butter decisions such as "hasn't lodged bond" / "is charging electricity without an individual check meter" / "is x days in arrears" / "has caused $x amount of damage". i.e. decisions and rulings which aren't straight forward.

    The non-bread-and-butter decisions contain the fish hooks that people should be aware of, and which aren't easily found. (even more so now)

    ------

    FYI - post edited to replace "and individual check meter" with "an individual check meter"

  4. #14

    Default

    Thanks for clarifying that BigWal. Just out of interest what was the ruling on charging for power without an individual check meter?
    A couple of my properties i include the power in the rent and was informed by TT that was fine as long as i did not nominate a value for the power as it cannot be ascertained accurately so it has to be zero $, the same goes for water if no meter.
    Seems a little off in some respects but i checked with TT a few times they informed me that if you did nominate a fixed value for the power the tenant could in theory argue that they were not using that amount which goes back to a circular argument to some degree.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    147

    Default

    Sorry - can't help with regards to your check meter question. From memory there are a few subleties, but you really should have a check meter, unless you have some specific terms in your rental agreement.

    Again, from memory there were quite a few decisions that came down along the lines of "you need a check meter", so I didn't comment on them in my original post above, as I assumed that was a reasonably common TT issue / discussion.

    My personal take-away though is that a check meter is recommended whenever you have a power supply to multiple rentals, and is also recommended instead of including the power component in the rent (may exclude boarding houses?).

    But to hark back to my previous comment - how is anybody supposed to know when (and if) to use a check-meter when they can't search previous TT rulings either:

    a) by painstakingly going through each one by typing in successive web addresses and reading the decision
    b) by searching for relevant key words in TT decisions.

    a) is possible (but now just got harder, as I explained before), but b) is simply not possible, and I can see no other reason why other than the TT doesn't want people to find prior precedent to challenge decisions they make.

    And again, publicly accessible case precedent is good enough for the court, so why isn't it good enough for the TT?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    10,309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsaneperson View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that BigWal. Just out of interest what was the ruling on charging for power without an individual check meter?
    A couple of my properties i include the power in the rent and was informed by TT that was fine as long as i did not nominate a value for the power as it cannot be ascertained accurately so it has to be zero $, the same goes for water if no meter.
    Seems a little off in some respects but i checked with TT a few times they informed me that if you did nominate a fixed value for the power the tenant could in theory argue that they were not using that amount which goes back to a circular argument to some degree.
    How could you charge seperately for power if you can't prove how much?
    Including it in the rent is the only option really.
    If you felt they used lots then put the rent up.
    Or get a check meter installed.
    Do they need to be certified accurate?

  7. #17

    Default

    I include power & water in the rent, this is where there are 2 tenancies in the 1 building - there's no other option. Check meters are not always able to be installed as some power outlets may be wired into the other accommodation part. But my point is that TT are against any kind of figure being stated ,example the power will be fixed at $50 per week .If both tenant and landlord are happy to agree to this - then why not?

    Even if i did have a check meter i would prefer not too use it and instead bill power into the rent. Reasons are:

    1. Don't want hassle to go to property every month ,to do readings and calculations
    2. Disturbing tenants
    3. More administration spent emailing the bill and then sometimes playing waiting games for payment just like with water

    If power usage does get out of hand there is no option but to increase rent - tenants know this.
    Last edited by mrsaneperson; 26-02-2016 at 10:23 AM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    10,309

    Default

    You would think adding that power was fixed at $50/wk would make it clear why the rent was higher than some other similar place.
    At the end of the day you just include it anyway and just not itemise.
    Net result is the same but reasons for rent value less so.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,743

    Default

    This is a recent TT decision which includes some interesting background information on how Housing NZ deals with P contamination and subsequent tenancy termination. There is also a cross application from the tenant concerning harassment, discrimination (based on ex partner being a gang member), which failed on all counts but which also contains background information.

    15/00905/PO

    PS Wellington landlords with a vacancy may want to take note.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    5,725

    Default

    Gotta wonder why they removed the application for rent arrears being 21 days in arrears.


 

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