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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    7,558

    Default

    should nz'ers + australians

    who own land overseas

    be forced to sell that land and

    instead buy in nz and oz?
    have you defeated them?
    your demons

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    8,296

    Default

    That's a straw man argument eri because no one is suggesting that foreign owners here would have to sell to kiwis.
    Squadly dinky do!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    7,558

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    newton's third law

    every action has an equal and opposite reaction

    if nz were to ban foreigners owning land here

    it would be logical to assume that at some stage in the future foreigners would ban nz'ers from owing their land?

    it might not effect you directly but it would certainly affect nz companies that own land overseas

    is that something worth considering?
    have you defeated them?
    your demons

  4. #14
    propertysearch Guest

    Default

    Good argument eri. My argument is not against (some) foreign investment. It is against going overboard and especially selling to foreign governments.
    In relation to Aus/NZ we are sort of related (apart from the rugby). Kiwis have invesments in Oz and Australians have investments in NZ. It has worked well for the most part.
    So what is your point?

  5. #15
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    Sep 2008
    Posts
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    i don't know what the answer is either

    but i know you can keep taking carriages off the money train

    while putting more people on

    for the good of everyone

    the land needs to be used most productively

    which means investing in it

    and the people who will invest the most in it and use it to its full potential

    are the ones who pay for the most for it

    if they buy it for top dollar and it doesn't work for them

    they sell

    in the 70's the usa was worried because the japanese were buying lots of their companies

    americans were lots from japan at the time so the japanese had all these american dollars to spend

    to fund the vietnam war, the dollar was devalued to dirt

    so the japanese got best value for their dollars by spending them in america

    40 years later, for many reasons, lots of those companies have been sold back to americans

    does it worry americans that sony now own music and movie studios that used to be american owned?

    japanese companies like toyota now have car factories in depressed parts of the country

    spartanburg, tennessee virtually gave land to bmw so they would build a car factory there

    honda have even moved their head office to the usa

    has this changed the usa? - yes

    has it wrecked the usa? - no

    would slapping up fences to prevent foreign ownership of land and companies have made the usa a better place?

    - i don't think so, it would have probably stayed stuck in the 70's, like the soviet union stayed stuck in the 50's, unable to meet the changing needs of future generations

    in nz muldoon almost bankrupted the country trying to keep us in the 50's

    change is always needed

    and gradual change is best accepted
    Last edited by eri; 06-09-2014 at 08:58 AM.
    have you defeated them?
    your demons

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,762

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    The other side of this issue is that of the vendors. They want to get the best price they can for their asset, which won't happen if they are forced to accept a lower price solely because of the nationality or domicile of potential buyers. Not to mention the unintended consequences as structures are set up to get around this. Can't be that hard to do, and I'd bet potential buyers will be investigating options, given (a) the publicity (b) the xenophobia and (c) the possibility of legislation in future.

  7. #17
    propertysearch Guest

    Default

    I think that you are making a lot of assumptions and ignoring a lot of the facts in talking about 'capital' without looking at the NOT free market at work eri. The one most single flaw that I can see in your argument is that of manipualtion and distortion of the real market which occurs everywhere but nowhere more than is the US. These people are great business people and they load the tables all the time....in their favour.

    You talk about how well the US is going but avoid talking about their debt, which they can never hope to repay. So what do they do? Print money to devalue their debt. It would not surprise me if the intention is to cause hyper inflation so that they never have to repay China for the money they borrowed. And in the meantime their industries become more competitive as the dollar drops. Great strategy. Corrupt behaviour though.

    One of the things you miss about the US is that it has been so successful because it has been a world leader in innovation and some of the products coming from this country have been unbelievably successful. Along the way they they have also stolen much of the science from other nations and this has extended to business opportunities and the mineral wealth of other countries. The US is not well regarded for its ethics and is hated in some parts of the world, for good reason.

    You talk about companies moving to the US with their businesses. That's easy. Just have a look at their tax system. Company tax is not the lowest but no other personal tax rates are this low anywhere in the world from what I have seen. Our own Rupert Murdoch took his business interests to the US and is now a US citizen. We are all glad to see him gone but wish he would stay out of our politics and let the rest of us elect our government, which he refuses to do.

    In Australia almost all of our profitable companies have been sold off. Of those left American companies sit at around 50% on their share registries. All of our highly profitable large banks have American banks and institutions who own more of our banks than we do. Many of our wonderful resources are also American owned. I bought shares in the world's third largest LNG deposit, which was Australian owned, some 2 decades ago and it is now owned by Chevron. This is true of many other companies.

    The issue with foreign ownership is the same as wealthy people who are allowed to own everything. Sooner or later citizens become serfs and this is not healthy for any population. There needs to be a balance and this is where the tax system used to work well........those with huge personal incomes paid a greater propertion in tax. This has now disappeared as those with immense wealth are of the opinion that they create jobs so should not have to pay any tax....and the tax system has been structured to accommodate this view. So the rest of us pay their share.

    Finally....FREEHOLD FARMING LAND. Freehold means 'gone forever'. Farming land is the food supply for a country. And no amount of rhetoric from lame brain economists is going to convince me that selling a country's food producing land is a good idea. What it is is suicide for a nation and anybody who thinks that selling farming land to the government of a country the size of China is wonderful idea should not be permitted to be in government, ever. Anybody with single digit IQ would understand that China and other third world nations are buying our farming land for one reason and one reason only: to produce food for THEIR country, now and in the future when THEIR POPULATIONS are larger. This is where I draw the line in th esand and say NO and it pains me to read posts where people think its a good idea. Give me strength. Even governments in NZ understand that this is the worst of all policies and prohibit it. Australia alone allows this to happen and those who govern the country have taken it upon themselves to do this as the population are not consulted, ever.

    "Gradual change"? Yeah right. Self interest has to be the driving force for any nation. Sadly Australia is governed by idiots who take the cake and not even third world nations are run by such destructive and self interest people who govern as Rome burns and who have no regard for future Australians who will be left to either go hungry or go to war. It makes one want to cry.

  8. #18
    propertysearch Guest

    Default

    Look at the big picture artemis. You have to be careful not to miss the forest for the trees.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    7,558

    Default

    like japan

    the large chinese population will start falling soon

    but faster due to their 1 child policy



    they won't need australian farms for their food

    like japan + singapore they'll earn export $ to import the food they need

    These are the first contractions of China’s coming demographic crunch: its total fertility rate is already below Russia, leaving it as the lower end of world rankings,
    and the UN has projected that, given current trends, its population will sink below 1 billion again by the end of this century.
    Starting around 2020 China is going to age faster than any society in the history in the world.
    By 2025 the age of meaningful Chinese labour export will be over and the one child policy generation will be ‘precious commodities’ at home.
    Eventually, Beijing will need to turn to massive immigration itself or risk grey stagnation.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-rus...losing-siberia

    and who will migrate to china?

    probably chinese sick of the racism they suffer in other countries who will be welcomed home

    so they will sell up here and there and move home

    once they get a proper democratic gov.


    Last edited by eri; 06-09-2014 at 01:51 PM.
    have you defeated them?
    your demons

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    if nz were to ban foreigners owning land here
    it would be logical to assume that at some stage in the future foreigners would ban nz'ers from owing their land?
    The Labour proposal is NOT to ban foreigners owning land here in NZ.
    You are spreading disinformation.
    Last edited by speights boy; 06-09-2014 at 03:51 PM.


 

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