Are we rich?

[Damap]

Top 10% of income earners in NZ pay around 36% of the total tax and earn around 30% of the nations income, so around 20% more than their share.
In the OECD only Norway, Belgium and Switzerland are at 1 to 1 ratios of tax to income for the top 10% income earners.
(Interestingly Ozzie is second to the USA for the rich paying more than their fair share of taxes)

[speights boy]

Does that include GST, or is it only income?

What % of their income does each group pay in all taxes?

[Damap]

Not certain. It was an OECD stat study it appears to be only income not sales taxes of any kind.

[speights boy]

The reasons I ask is:

1. NZ has a high level of GST compliance -ie. very few things are exempt;
2. The lowest incomes generally pay a higher proportion of their incomes in GST than the higher incomes do;
3. A relevant statistic is often ... what % of income is paid out in all taxes in each band.

That final one - as opposed to straight dollar amounts - is what is often used when comparing relative tax burdens between the various income groups.

This is different from your figures which did not include Local and State, only Federal tax.
Also it was a % of total Federal tax received, not the % of a person's income.

You don't hear Karl Rove et al use these figures often, as they do not support their argument.

[drelly]

Top 10% of income earners in NZ pay around 36% of the total tax and earn around 30% of the nations income, so around 20% more than their share.

I think you'll find that the actual tax proportion is 76% once you remove all the tax paid from benefits.

[Marc]

Debunking the Idea that Americans are Overtaxed

Americans have been trained to resent taxes even though we are trying to run an advanced economy Walmart-style. My impression is that the citizens of many other countries are far less exercised about higher tax levels because they perceive they are getting value for money (medical services, good public transportation, etc). By contrast, we’ve had a 30 year campaign to make government incompetent by running it on the cheap and demonizing people who work in government jobs, and the result is less service and more corruption. This experiment is working just fine for those wealthy enough to be effectively stateless or to otherwise isolate themselves. And it will probably take at least a generation for the costs (such as public health problems) to afflict even them. Nicely played.

Check out the "Total taxes paid per country" chart in the article.

Read more at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/...overtaxed.html

[speights boy]

Obama's budget proposal includes having those who earn over $1 million each year to pay 30% tax.
There is outrage of course from those only paying about 15% now.
After all, if you earn $ 3 million per year, imagine having only $2.1m left over each year; as opposed to the $2.55m now.

No wonder Karl Rove and Fox Noise is in meltdown mode.

[donna]

I suggest you read the comments too - here's one..

Indeed. Privatization has been a terrible experiment in the US, and resulted in all manner of inefficiencies, cost-increases, and service depreciation. My favorite example of this is Enron and California power generation. Once they got thier hands on the power plants out there, Enron began deliberately turning off generators, creating brown- and black-outs intentionally to both drive up prices, and extort the state government into further deregulation and sweeter new plant contracts. The problem with letting the fox guard the hen house is that, while you no longer have to take care of the hens, now you’ve got to negotiate with the fox every time you want an egg.
Read more at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/...sirUkeFpCjr.99

cheers,

Donna

[Damap]

I am stunned to find so many democrats on a wealth creation/investment forum. Believing nakedcapitalism site is like taking the Sunday Tabloids seriously as a reliable information source.

Everybody tries to skew the figures to suit their political leanings but the basic facts remain the same.

When factoring in state and local taxes, the top 10% pay just under half the tax tab. And when calculating tax burden as a percent of income, the top 10% paid an average of 30% of their income in local, state, and federal taxes in 2011. That's not much different than the 25% percent paid by the middle class.

You cannot get away from the need for the middle class, who are the majority, will always carry the primary tax burden. It is a numerical necessity.

[eri]

do you mean democrats, as in pro democracy

or democrats as in the slightly-left of far-right USA?

[Marc]

I am stunned to find so many democrats on a wealth creation/investment forum. Believing nakedcapitalism site is like taking the Sunday Tabloids seriously as a reliable information source.

I am stunned (like most people who live outside USA) that you think this site is USA focused and all sites for that matter are USA focused. Check out the world - its a big place and surprisingly there are other countries on this planet.

And not everyone thinks the sun shines out of the USA

[speights boy]

And when calculating tax burden as a percent of income, the top 10% paid an average of 30% of their income in local, state, and federal taxes in 2011. That's not much different than the 25% percent paid by the middle class.

Hmm
Is that why youse fellas wanted Mr "I don't worry about 47% of the country" in power?
Because he paid 14% effective tax rate on his $14 million earnings for the year.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what ... who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims. ...
These are people who pay no income tax. ... and so my job is not to worry about those people.
I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives,"

[Damap]

I mean democrats as in US left leanings and it is Speights who wants this to be about the USA. He complained when I introduced NZ.

Your first entry into this thread was regarding the US.
You are jumping all over the place.

Unless you keep on track I may have to divert my energies elsewhere.

You are the guys defending the US democrats view of US taxation. I am a kiwi I don't care :-).

[Damap]

I find it hard to believe you are stupid enough Speights to decide that because one person pays less tax then all US tax payers are the same.
Having lived in both countries I can say the US are far more patriotic and proud of paying taxes. They value success. It is NZ who look for ways to screw IRD ad nauseum.

[speights boy]

Here's a bit of both countries for you then.

David Cunliffe: We all must pay tax - including multinationals

Peter Dunne wants to tax New Zealanders' use of iPads and iPhones but shies away from taxing Apple itself.

The Herald asked this writer if it seemed fair that in New Zealand Apple paid only $2.5 million in tax on $571 million in turnover.
Of course tax is paid on profit, not revenue - and Apple NZ apparently made only $5.5 million in profit and paid 31 per cent tax on that. Fair enough?

Oddly, Apple shares have climbed 73 per cent from US$404.30 to $700.09 ($471,00 to 815.85) over the tax year to September 2012.
Its global profits climbed from US$25.922 billion to $41.733 billion, or from 23.94 per cent to 26.66 per cent of sales revenue during that time.
So why was its New Zealand arm so apparently unprofitable at less than 1 per cent of sales revenue, relative to Apple's global operations?

www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10877012