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  1. #21
    propertysearch Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by elguapo View Post
    Far more? How can Australian property managers make any money? Are they on minimum wage or do they just never spend any time on the property?
    They seem to do quite well. Maybe rents are higher and they get a bigger cut. The service is no worse than Dunedin farce which I have lived with for the past year which cost me financially as well as having at least one of my properties left in a poorer state....with the manager wanting to move on and ignore his poor management and attitude.

    I have read that some Auckland PMs charge as low as 5% so 7% seems to be a fair figure from what I can see. But when you have individual managers weighed down with up to 150 properties to look after you can see the problem. Just as a rough calculation if there is $25 a week coming in from rental fees (not to mention all the other growing number of add-ons) and a manager manages say 100 properties then this equates to $2500 per week per manager. If the manager draws a salary of say $1000 per week then there is still $1500 per manager for the owner, less overheads. And if the owner of the business has 5 managers then we are looking at $7500 per week. So even if overheads were say another $2500 per week this leaves the owner with $5000 per week. And then we add on the host of other charges. Not a bad figure so please do not lament about "making money". YOU DO. The question is how much is enough and what do you provide to long suffering landlords who expect more than a rent collection agency or, heaven's forbid, a PM who is going to look after the property rather than permit one set of gypsies after another to trample the prime asset of landlords who want their investments looked after?

    Sorry about the lecture. The real estate industry and its unaccountability does get me going.

    So back to the same question: is there a PM in Dunedin who does not want to rip off owners, who is happy to settle for a fair charge for a fair day's managing and who is worth hiring? That is the question .....and I dare say the needle in the haystack.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    2,116

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    Quote Originally Posted by propertysearch View Post
    They seem to do quite well. Maybe rents are higher and they get a bigger cut.
    Well, most property management work is a loss leader for real estate agents to get the listing. Mostly, I don't think it's very profitable at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by propertysearch View Post
    I have read that some Auckland PMs charge as low as 5% so 7% seems to be a fair figure from what I can see.
    What service do you seriously expect for 5%. For a typical $400/week place, it's just $20/week. That gets you, what, an hour a month?

    Quote Originally Posted by propertysearch View Post
    The question is how much is enough and what do you provide to long suffering landlords who expect more than a rent collection agency or, heaven's forbid, a PM who is going to look after the property rather than permit one set of gypsies after another to trample the prime asset of landlords who want their investments looked after?
    Learn the lesson most property investors have learned, if you want the property management done well you have to do it yourself.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Tauranga
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    Mate in Dunedin used on of the RE firms tennats go way behind in rent - (my mates not that savvy and never checked her accounts) no one noticed cos the person looking after her place had recently left and no one was assigned to it.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by elguapo View Post
    Well, most property management work is a loss leader for real estate agents to get the listing. Mostly, I don't think it's very profitable at all.




    What service do you seriously expect for 5%. For a typical $400/week place, it's just $20/week. That gets you, what, an hour a month?



    Learn the lesson most property investors have learned, if you want the property management done well you have to do it yourself
    .
    So true! I have around 10 rentals and find its quite a full on job maintaining them ,checking rents etc. No way could a PM do anywhere near what i have to do with just 1 hour a week for 1 property. Sure there are times where things are relaxed and theres little to do, but this often changes quickly and i find myself getting called out even at 11pm at night to look at a burst water mains or flooding toilet or spending the whole day repairing a picket fence that has been damaged by street youths.

  5. #25
    propertysearch Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by elguapo View Post
    Well, most property management work is a loss leader for real estate agents to get the listing. Mostly, I don't think it's very profitable at all.





    Learn the lesson most property investors have learned, if you want the property management done well you have to do it yourself.


    Not sure if you are guilding the lily here or not. What you do not say is that the property which MAY require and hour a week spent on it is offset by those which run lick clockwork. The issue is about PICKING THE RIGHT TENANT. If you get that one right then the only problems which may occasionally arise is late rent payments (we have never had that problem) and rental properties which are not left as found. That is where the managing agent earns his keep.

    I did the figures. Whilst one has to be in the game to appreciate the pitfalls I make the general observation that if the business is set up well, is run on a lean basis and without flash offices and waste, and controls the clientelle then problems should not be over the top. And yes things go wrong.....but not with every property every week!! Its a bit like painting: if you do the preparation properly (selecting tenants and properties) then the painting is a breeze. get that wrong and you get the type of issues mentioned.

    We don't expect a 5% commission but we also are not happy to pay 9-12% either as this is highway robbery and only badly run organisations or principals wanting to live a lavish lifestyle need to charge such high rates. Perhaps all the local principals should get together and refuse to manage dumps until the owners fix them up. Problem solved.

    What service do you seriously expect for 5%. For a typical $400/week place, it's just $20/week. That gets you, what, an hour a month?

  6. #26
    Join Date
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    Tauranga
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    Im happy with 10% no additional charges for inspections, arranging maintenance etc. Less would be better but Ive budgeted on this and service is good.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by propertysearch View Post
    Not sure if you are guilding the lily here or not. What you do not say is that the property which MAY require and hour a week spent on it is offset by those which run lick clockwork.
    An hour a week is a long term average, perhaps a bit less, but it's much the same for most of the people I know who have much larger holdings than I do. Maybe you have good tenants on very long tenancies with minimal fuss, if so, why do you need a property manager?

    Quote Originally Posted by propertysearch View Post
    I did the figures. Whilst one has to be in the game to appreciate the pitfalls I make the general observation that if the business is set up well, is run on a lean basis and without flash offices and waste, and controls the clientelle then problems should not be over the top. And yes things go wrong.....but not with every property every week!! Its a bit like painting: if you do the preparation properly (selecting tenants and properties) then the painting is a breeze. get that wrong and you get the type of issues mentioned.
    Clearly the industry has just been waiting for your revolutionary approach to management, when can we sign up?

    Quote Originally Posted by propertysearch View Post
    We don't expect a 5% commission but we also are not happy to pay 9-12% either as this is highway robbery and only badly run organisations or principals wanting to live a lavish lifestyle need to charge such high rates.
    Property managers with a lavish lifestyle and flash offices? Where do these exist exactly? It's a low margin business, very little money is made from the commission.

  8. #28
    propertysearch Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by elguapo View Post
    An hour a week is a long term average, perhaps a bit less, but it's much the same for most of the people I know who have much larger holdings than I do. Maybe you have good tenants on very long tenancies with minimal fuss, if so, why do you need a property manager?



    Clearly the industry has just been waiting for your revolutionary approach to management, when can we sign up?



    Property managers with a lavish lifestyle and flash offices? Where do these exist exactly? It's a low margin business, very little money is made from the commission.

    The only thing one can go on is comparisons between agencies which charge very little and survive or even thrive and those who charge a lot and claim that they are doing poorly. The problem is that without seeing the books neither of us is in a position of strength. And then of course if a business, any business, is being run poorly then the outcome is to be expected. So I come back to the comparisons: the other blogger who states that Auckland businesses are charging around 5% (dirt cheap); and Australian businesses charge 7%. One might suppose that they are not in it for the glory and certainly hope that they are making a good living, otherwise why bother. The only consolation is that we are not in the same leaky boat as some American rentals where agents charge 40%. Well before that time I will be taking over management.

    I am not aware of what percentage of tenants are problematic and somebody has to cater for this end of the market. My suggestion is that agents who handle such business do need to charge more as it is understood that this end of the market also involves properties which are in some cases a bit run down as well as tenants whose income may be unstable at the best of times. Horses for courses I might suggest.


 

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