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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    48

    Default Gay Marriage - why?

    I have been thinking about this a lot recently and I am still trying to get my head around why gay marriage is being pushed so hard instead of modifying civil union laws to make them exactly the same as marriage, (which it mostly is), bar the term "marriage".

    I would fully support any changes to civil unions to give gay people the exact same rights as married people (i.e. adoption rights) but what is wrong with having a word that means heterosexual marriage and that has religious connotations? I think that not giving gay people the same rights as straight people is wrong but having a descriptive word for a particular type of union is not discriminatory.

    A lot of gay people love to be different and go out of their way to express themselves and their sexuality in the media and in the public, gay pride parade, gay bars, gay saunas etc, so why do they want to be involved in a heterosexual, religiously-tied tradition that they know is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, especially those of other minorities in society?

    They know their type of intimate relationship is different, just like a polygamist's one is - it's not about taking away rights or disrespecting the individual, it's about classifying the relationship. I would be really disappointed if this bill passes just because a) most mainstream people are too scared to be un-pc and offend people b) there is no valid explanation for changing the law aside from the descriptive term of marriage being able to be applied to homosexual civil unions.

    And if people say it's just to get the word marriage to apply to everyone, then what on earth is the point? I feel there's no point to even get married because they might just change the law in a few years to make it redundant or come up with something else - all depends on what the minority of the hour feels like doing.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    5,816

    Default

    How long has homosexuality been legal in NZ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    48

    Default

    since 1986

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Whangarei
    Posts
    5,867

    Default

    Wow quite a lot of assumptions in your post...
    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    I have been thinking about this a lot recently and I am still trying to get my head around why gay marriage is being pushed so hard instead of modifying civil union laws to make them exactly the same as marriage, (which it mostly is), bar the term "marriage".
    Because they're being discriminated against. Churches will still be free to not offer gay marriage ceremonies.

    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    I would fully support any changes to civil unions to give gay people the exact same rights as married people (i.e. adoption rights) but what is wrong with having a word that means heterosexual marriage and that has religious connotations? I think that not giving gay people the same rights as straight people is wrong but having a descriptive word for a particular type of union is not discriminatory.
    Firstly because marriage is not an invention of christianity. Morality isn't either by the way. Churches can make up their own word.

    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    A lot of gay people love to be different and go out of their way to express themselves and their sexuality in the media and in the public, gay pride parade, gay bars, gay saunas etc, so why do they want to be involved in a heterosexual, religiously-tied tradition that they know is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, especially those of other minorities in society?
    *snicker* A lot of Christians go out of their way to be different. I've heard that they gather in groups every Sunday, put adverts in newspapers, have public events, parades, church dances even!!! Freaks! Why can't they just be normal? By "religious", I assume you mean "Christian"? As previously mentioned, religion has no rights to marriage and what has ruffling feather's got to do with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    They know their type of intimate relationship is different, just like a polygamist's one is - it's not about taking away rights or disrespecting the individual, it's about classifying the relationship. I would be really disappointed if this bill passes just because a) most mainstream people are too scared to be un-pc and offend people b) there is no valid explanation for changing the law aside from the descriptive term of marriage being able to be applied to homosexual civil unions.
    omigod... and all black people are good at basketball. Gay people have relationships of their own choosing. They are not all "free-love-polygamist-devil-worshippers". Gay people have monogamist relationships just like you and I. Considering how many "straight" marriages end in affairs, I don't think it's right to point fingers. Why is "classification" important? I think you'll find that most mainstream peope don't care whether or not gay people want to get married.

    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    And if people say it's just to get the word marriage to apply to everyone, then what on earth is the point? I feel there's no point to even get married because they might just change the law in a few years to make it redundant or come up with something else - all depends on what the minority of the hour feels like doing.
    This is slightly alarmist isn't it? People get married because they want to, not because it's trendy or because their church demands it... oh wait a sec...
    Last edited by drelly; 13-03-2013 at 08:58 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Who really cares what other people do it doesn't affect any one else marriage so I really don't see the big issue. Lots of people get married with absolutely no reglious connotations.

    Meh too many (non) dogooders sticking there becks in other peoples business when they should be focusing on themselves. I think some people just love a reason to get all het up over something cos it adds colour to their dull life. If someone wants to get married leave them too it who really cares what sex they happen to be.

    I think a lot of the people using religon as an excuse to stop it are hypocrites isn't there something in their book about judging others etc.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    5,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    since 1986
    So.

    27 years into homosexuality becoming legal, marriages are now being lobbied for.

    Let's fast forward a little shall we?

    Is there any restriction on age difference between partners? I would suggest the answer is no.

    Is there any reason why two males or two femails should not be married? If this law is passed then the answer is no. No restriction.

    Therefore, while the marriage of father to son is unlawful now, what is to stop it becoming lawful in the future?

    Mother and daughter?

    And ...............................................

    Genetically tested father and daughter getting married? Mother and son?

    Why should bigamy and polygamy be considered unlawful?

    Is it possible for the name "Mother" and "Father" to be expunged from our language?

    Where will it end?

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keys View Post
    Where will it end?
    When society as a whole says, Hang on...that is one step too far.

    We do not appear to be at that point with this bill.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    5,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keys View Post
    Where will it end?
    When the Islamic Republic of New Zealand introduces Sharia law
    DFTBA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    5,086

    Default

    To be not quite so flippant, 'where will it end' is a question that has been asked before. Inter-class marriages in Victoria England, inter-race marriages in 1960s USA (and probably late 1800's New Zealand), Women fighting on the front line, salads at McDonalds .....

    Society marches on, and its code of ethics marches with it.

    There may or may not be a conspiracy behind same-sex marriage to promote a 'free love for all' agenda, I have no idea, but any further 'liberalisation' remains a minority issue until/unless society changes to accept it.

    Maybe the question isn't 'Where will it end', but 'How far do you want to wind the clock back?'.
    DFTBA

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,735

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firsttimecaller View Post
    I have been thinking about this a lot recently and I am still trying to get my head around why gay marriage is being pushed so hard instead of modifying civil union laws to make them exactly the same as marriage, (which it mostly is), bar the term "marriage".

    I would fully support any changes to civil unions to give gay people the exact same rights as married people (i.e. adoption rights) but what is wrong with having a word that means heterosexual marriage and that has religious connotations? I think that not giving gay people the same rights as straight people is wrong but having a descriptive word for a particular type of union is not discriminatory.

    A lot of gay people love to be different and go out of their way to express themselves and their sexuality in the media and in the public, gay pride parade, gay bars, gay saunas etc, so why do they want to be involved in a heterosexual, religiously-tied tradition that they know is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, especially those of other minorities in society?

    They know their type of intimate relationship is different, just like a polygamist's one is - it's not about taking away rights or disrespecting the individual, it's about classifying the relationship. I would be really disappointed if this bill passes just because a) most mainstream people are too scared to be un-pc and offend people b) there is no valid explanation for changing the law aside from the descriptive term of marriage being able to be applied to homosexual civil unions.

    And if people say it's just to get the word marriage to apply to everyone, then what on earth is the point? I feel there's no point to even get married because they might just change the law in a few years to make it redundant or come up with something else - all depends on what the minority of the hour feels like doing.
    Vocal persistent minority finally getting their way?
    Traditionalists not wanting to have the definition of their relationship distorted by a form of relationship outside the traditional definition of such.
    Practically, I would find it easier for a variant form to have a different name. More information up front, less questions for me to ask.

    PS: If same sex unions are going to be branded as Marriages, then I want PLUTO to be a PLANET again. Seems a fair trade.
    Last edited by McDuck; 13-03-2013 at 01:00 PM.


 

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