Logical Fallacy or Racist?

[McDuck]

.....
Change is inevitable - get used to it.

It’s best to understand a cliché, it’s applications and limits, before you repeat it.
Another good cliché is “don’t bury your head in the sand”.
P.T E.

[Wayne]

Change is inevitable - get used to it.

While change is inevitable it doesn't mean we have to roll over and play dead. It is possible to direct change in the direction you would like it to head.

This debate is healthy - at least we are allowed to have it. Some of it people will call racist but that is just a label from their perspective. People should make their views heard no matter what they are, if others don't like it then they can stop listening.

[TheLiberalLeft]

Wayne, while what you say is absolutely right, and is indeed a form of "I don't like what you say but I'll defend your right to say it", it doesn't absolve someone from racism or racist attitudes. If it's racist the person should be called out for it. And if it IS racist, it's not just a "label" as you put it, made from the caller's perspective. It's a fact written into law.

[Maccachic]

. 10% of New Zealander are living in Australia, why? just want better life.

This is what gets me, they percieve its a better life, personally I don't which is why I am still here. A lot are finding the oposite is true and are being shipped back.

[drelly]

This is quite a long thread that really says bugger all! So immigrants go to countries that they like the look of and then form some close knit communities around people of their own culture... not really news is it?

[TheLiberalLeft]

It is when it annoys the locals, drelly. How dare they come here and maintain some aspects of their culture <-- sarcasm.

A lot of kiwis (in London) are guilty of the same thing. Human nature, I think you'll find.

[Wayne]

If it's racist the person should be called out for it. And if it IS racist, it's not just a "label" as you put it, made from the caller's perspective. It's a fact written into law.

Then you need to define racist. Pretty soon anything is racist and we get the situation where conversations someone doesn't like are shut down by pulling out the race card. You can't have an honest and open conversation with the threat of a race card always there. PC does go mad.

[Glizzle]

You have to draw that line sometime at what is actual fact, just like me asking for the differences in demographic between Manurewa and Remurewa, you just cant do it with out bringing race into it, its not just rich and poor.

[TheLiberalLeft]

Wayne, it's not difficult. Definitions of racism are easily found. It's nothing to do with PC, mad or otherwise.

Shouting "racist!" when it's not is quite blatently incorrect and offensive, of course.

[TheLiberalLeft]

Glizzle - that's not racist. Citing demographics by race is, as you say, fact.

As is saying "x% of our prison population is Maori".

But saying "No wonder you're in prison - you're Maori" is racist.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

[Glizzle]

Yea but this is why we have people taking things as a racist remark, we don't accept the truth, the truth of the matter is a comment like "No wonder you're in prison - you're Maori" is going to be made because the hard facts are if your in jail you have over a 50% chance to be Maori, trying to define the differences between talking about the facts of a race and making rude remarks about a race should hold no differences, to me its all just verbal assault.

[TheLiberalLeft]

I give up.

[Wayne]

Yea but this is why we have people taking things as a racist remark, we don't accept the truth, the truth of the matter is a comment like "No wonder you're in prison - you're Maori" is going to be made because the hard facts are if your in jail you have over a 50% chance to be Maori, trying to define the differences between talking about the facts of a race and making rude remarks about a race should hold no differences, to me its all just verbal assault.

That example doesn't work so well. While it may be true that 50% of the rpison population is Maori (and I haven't checked) but that doesn't mean that 50% of Maori are in prison which your example implies. It means that you have a 50% chance of being right if you said the next prisinor walking around the corner will be Maori.

[Wayne]

Wayne, it's not difficult. Definitions of racism are easily found. It's nothing to do with PC, mad or otherwise.

Shouting "racist!" when it's not is quite blatently incorrect and offensive, of course.

You see it that way and I agree with you but unfortunately not everyone sees it the same way. They think the statement of fact is being racist, and some of it has to do with the context it is said in.

[Glizzle]

The fact your trying to define what racism is, its absurdity, these no exact definition, it changes from day to day and one comment now in ten years could be racist.