How many properties can you manage before you engage a property manager.

[unhinged]

My partner and I are new to the property investment game and have purchased two properties in the past year. We have enjoyed the experience so far and have had good tenants to date . Because things have gone well so far we are starting to consider our third investment property purchase.

I am interested to know what others PI's think is a manageable number of properties to manage yourself and also work fulltime, while maintaining your own home, your investments and still be able to enjoy a work/family balanced lifestyle before you consider giving some of your properties to a professional property manager to manage? Each to there own limits, but what are the limits?

[drelly]

It depends on the time you have available, how good you are at it and the quality of the properties and tenants. I manage 9 tenancies on my own without too much trouble.

[whitt]

5-10 depending on types of properties and them being local to yourself.
Obviuosly a boarding home you would go low and new houses in a good location higher end of range.

[Propoholic]

I am interested to know what others PI's think is a manageable number of properties to manage yourself and also work fulltime, while maintaining your own home, your investments and still be able to enjoy a work/family balanced lifestyle before you consider giving some of your properties to a professional property manager

Professional Property Manager - you're talking hens teeth there so manage your own properties as long as possible.

[essence]

There are those companies who hold themselves up to be property management companies, but they fail abysmally. They will take their commission every week and then won't complete inspections!! I've even had a company who never even completed an initial inspection when then tenant moved in, so when they moved out - how was I going to validate any damage??? *sigh*

To date, I have NOT found a professional property manager.

IMHO, you're much better off to keep reading on here, learn from other peoples mistakes and if you come across a problem - ask.

[graemeh]

To date, I have NOT found a professional property manager.

I see you're in Wellington. Try Full House, I've found them pretty good.

[Tan]

It varies. I had 4 years of very little work for my 3 properties, then it suddenly was all on in the 5th year - roof leak, 2 insurance claims, several re-tenants (including a bad one) etc. Luckily by then I had moved to a more flexible job. Then it settled down again.

The main things that I see owners not doing are regular rent increases and regular inspections. As mentioned above lots of managers don't do that either, and they also tend to ignore maintenance.

[spurner]

To answer the original question, I'd say 100 tenancies.

And yes, manage them yourself, nobody will care for your property and your interests as much as you do yourself.

[sparxNZ]

I think it depends on what your long term strategy and plans are, personally I do not and would not manage any of my own property investments.

If your properties are close to where you live, you have plenty of time to dedicate to chasing tenants, doing maintenance and attending the occasional tenancy tribunal hearing and you do not intend to amass a large portfolio then manage them yourself.

If you intend to buy a lot of property in the future then you ought to start weighing up the amount of money you will save by managing your own properties and compare it to the amount of money you would be making using all that time to find good deals in the property market, add value, profit on sales etc - economies of scale and opportunity cost may bring you to a screeching halt eventually if you don't.

just my two cents.
Matt

[Perry]

Of all the questions put to these forums,
this one has to be the epitome of:

None size fits all.

Simply, there are too many variables.

A good investor may be a bad own-
portfolio PM and the reverse seems to
often apply, bubbly character not with-
standing.

Although we don't see many on here,
some tenant tales must make the better
self-PM PIs on here really cringe. Perhaps,
once you get a feel for it and your own
aptitude for what's involved, you'll then
be able to answer your own question?
.

[Re@der]

Great answer Perry. I think that it is important to do it for awhile with some different types of places. ie Flats, apartments and standalone houses. It helps you understand what is involved and probably leads to better strategy setting.

[Perry]

And a better appreciation of what PMs face
and a more reasonable expectation of them?
.

[Davo36]

To answer the original question, I'd say 100 tenancies.

And yes, manage them yourself, nobody will care for your property and your interests as much as you do yourself.

Spurner, do you really manage all your own tenancies? You must be pretty full time on this then?

[essence]

I manage some of my properties (sub 100 - !!) and have an excellent independent PM for the rest.

I've had years with little maintenance problems and all has been good.

This year has been an absolute PIG (see if you can track down some of my rants!) and I've been dealing with problems since January off and on. I must state however, that the biggest problem I've had this year was a tenant placed into a property by a REA PM.

I've dealt with this particular PM before and haven't had problems. She must've come off her meds, because this year she has been hopeless.

For experience with knowing how/what tenants do, I suggest reading some of the tenants stuff posts. Best to learn from others experience - it's MUCH cheaper.

[spurner]

I have over 100 tenancies, but these are in only 8 properties. And 98% of the tenancies are located within a 300metre radius, so it's not as tricky as some might imagine. Managing 100 individual houses would be a real nightmare however!

I would much rather 100 close-by than a couple in Auckland, some in Rotorua, a few in Hastings, 1 in Wanganui, a couple in...

January is pretty busy doing the lease renewals, but the other 11 months would probably average 15-20 hours per week. Enough to keep you occupied, but not enough to stop you from doing what you want to do. I've been spending less than half my time in NZ for awhile now and so far so good!

added: I hire a part-time PM at one of the larger properties.

Spurner, do you really manage all your own tenancies? You must be pretty full time on this then?