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  • Knives out at Investors Forum

    from the Sunday Star Times
    06 February 2005

    The sod has not turned as well as some property Investors Forum backers had hoped. Garry Sheeran reports.

    The lure of sharing fat profits usually pocketed by professional property developers has instead brought heartache for once-enthusiastic investors.

    Attracted by the prospect of buying into developments at prices 20 per cent below market value, they signed up with a property investors' network called the Investors Forum.

    Instead, they find themselves dipping into their pockets to stump up with extra cash to meet massive cost over-runs.

    After so much was promised, their less than glittering prize from the now-waning property boom has angered some members of the 2000-strong Investors Forum.

    One said he signed up enthusiastically with the Forum when it came to town three years ago with bright new ideas on property investment and a slick seminar to match.

    "I did so despite being told by my own lawyer that everything in the document was designed to protect 'them' and not 'us'," he said.

    The Forum promised investors they would be able to share in valuation gains made while a property was being developed. In a rising property market, that proved tremendously attractive to many investors.

    The flipside was that they had to share in any cost increases during that time.

    "I went in with my eyes open, so I can't complain now if costs went up," said the investor.

    "But costs went up so much, and the project was so late, that what should have been a very successful investment is turning out to be something else again."

    He said some causes for cost increases were factors beyond the Forum's control.

    Another said there appeared to be no cap on fees the Forum could charge, and while investors became, in effect, mini-developers in the project, they could get no answers to questions when things went wrong.

    "And at least one project turned into a nightmare," he said.

    "We feel that once we signed up we were treated pretty shabbily as customers."

    Since April 2001, around 2000 people have joined the Forum after attending property seminars organised by Auckland developers and father-and-son team Dan and Kelly McEwan.

    The Forum has channeled many millions of dollars into projects worth an estimated $400 million in and around some of New Zealand's hottest residential spots.

    Dan McEwan said the Forum allowed ordinary investors to become mini-developers by getting into property developments at the ground floor.

    "That way they are able to share in development profits," he said.

    The McEwan Group, a vehicle of McEwan family interests, has undertaken a number of projects either as sole developer or in partnership with other developers.

    But some disillusioned investors are not the only ones soured by events.

    Property-related professionals contacted by the Sunday Star-Times also questioned a governance model which exposed small investors to proportionate liability for risks usually shouldered by professional developers.

    They also question a property development scheme that relies on valuation increases for capital gain.

    "That's fine in the market we have seen over the past few years, but what about in future?" one asked.

    Several investors contacted the Star-Times with their concerns, and others have willingly spoken, also on condition of anonymity.

    "We have signed confidentiality clauses and are still involved with Forum projects," said one.

    With 39 projects under the Forum's belt, founding director Dan McEwan said most had exceeded their original cost estimate.

    "This is normal in property development," he said.

    In the past two years building costs had increased by up to 50 per cent.

    "Development projects, however, are currently selling at double the price that was indicated four years ago."

    McEwan said the Forum had experienced problems with the development of 18 classic Wellington villas in the capital's Aro Street, around which some discontent had gathered.

    The Star-Times understands original investors in Aro Street were told construction costs would be $260,000, but had now ballooned out to $400,000.

    That increase, and a lengthy completion delay, left one investor lamenting that what could have been a healthy double-digit return had become single-digit.

    Other Aro Street investors have not been so dismayed.

    Alex Grant, who has invested in several developments through the Forum, was a late participant in Aro Street when anticipated construction costs had risen to $350,000.

    He said completion was a year later than anticipated, but he had still doubled his equity - "higher costs have been matched by higher valuations".

    "I knew the extra risks I was taking on board, but I also knew the potential for a greater return," he said.

    "I'm happy."

    Grumblings have also emerged from investors in Queenstown, where the Forum has several projects under way, including the Pounamu development which involves the demolition of the historic Bottle House to make way for a luxury 68-apartment and hotel development.

    Investors who earlier paid a deposit on an apartment were told they would cost $550,000 to build, and had a valuation of $700,000.

    That cost had risen to $630,000, and similar apartments in the tourist spot were now fetching $680,000.

    "I am sure the Queenstown property market will hold up, but those two numbers are getting uncomfortably close together," said an investor.

    McEwan confirmed the cost increases, but said valuations on the Pounamu apartments had risen to $800,000.

    Southland born and bred, McEwan has been active in property developing, investing and financing since the mid 1960s.

    After a decade in Australia, he returned to New Zealand in 2000 to establish the Forum as an education tool for investors.

    By mid-2001 the property sector was starting to hum, and people were wanting more than seminars on property.

    The Forum then began sourcing property investment opportunities and offering alternative structures beyond the standard sale and purchase agreement where investors were protected from having to meet development cost increases.

    Some Forum projects like Aro Street were structured as bare trusts where a group of investors came together to act as joint participants in the project.

    While this brought the liability for extra costs, it also meant they could benefit in growth in valuations.

    McEwan said this more sophisticated structure was promoted to more experienced investors.

    "Early on, we may have let a few less sophisticated investors slip through that we shouldn't have," he said.

    The Forum also offers a co-development structure where investors are not liable for extra costs, but their deposit money is lent directly to the project rather than put in a trust.

    This provided an opportunity to share in development profits as well as buy and then either rent, or on-sell units later.

    This structure will be used in one of the Forum's latest projects, the $100m-plus redevelopment of the Waiwera thermal area into an international spa.

    Also on the Forum's agenda are plans to invest in the unfinished Sheraton Hotel in Rarotonga which nearly bankrupted the Cook Islands when it folded 11 years ago amid Mafia and murder allegations.

    "We are working on ways in which we can de-risk that project," McEwan said.

    He said the Forum would continue to use the bare trust and co-development structures where they were appropriate.

    He said bare trusts especially were more suited to a smaller group of investors rather than large numbers on bigger projects.

    The risks they entailed had been underscored by the fact that the Forum had used them at a time when costs were increasing significantly.

    But so too had valuations and property prices.

    "At the end of the day we want repeat business from members who have been happy by what they are achieving through the Forum," he said.
    Wealth vs Health - why have both when you can gorge on one?

  • #2
    "I did so despite being told by my own lawyer that everything in the document was designed to protect 'them' and not 'us'," he said.

    Caveat emptor

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Jonfug,

      but then he goes on to say,
      "I went in with my eyes open, so I can't complain now if costs went up, said the investor."
      Eyes wide open to the profits, eyes wide shut to the risk, I say.

      and of course my pet hate,

      "One said he signed up enthusiastically with the Forum when it came to town three years ago with bright new ideas on property investment and a slick seminar to match."
      People need to be aware of the physiological affect a gathering of people has on clarity, no matter how much ‘good will’ is espoused or how grand a 'new idea' by the organizers, awareness of the fact that this is done not out of the goodness of their hearts but it is done for 'profit', may just allow you to find that one gem even if it is not out of the mouth of the speaker.

      Comment


      • #4
        Balanced story

        but a bit loose on the emphasis. Have nothing to do with Investors Forum, but can see how these syndicates can be useful. I don't think the investors in the story can complain, given that:

        1) Property development is not a risk free investment
        2) No one guaranteed a double digit return
        3) No one actually lost money, they still made $$$$$
        4) The reduced profit was due to factors outside Investors Forum control

        I think communication may have been a bit slow from the story, but from experience, the situation with any development can be very fluid, especially in the lead up to granting of resource consent up to final completion.

        As for risk sharing, this is always going to be a controversial issue. Arguably it appears from the story that the Investors Forum take on a lot of the risk upfront, doing the preliminary and preparatory work before approaching its members. It is fair that the investors take on some risk too if they in effect become joint venture partners, and recognising the work that was done before they got involved.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think this is a typical example of the media taking a story and twisting for their own purposes, ie they'll be looking for any negative stories on the property market as the boom stories are old news now.

          I'm a forum member and have a forum investment property, so also have first hand experience. Their communication to their members is poor I can say that, and the developments are taking longer than expected and costs have gone up. But when global steel costs go up 50% and there is a labour shortage eveyone needs to share the burden.

          This disillusioned investor sounds a little naive, there's no free ride.

          Sure I would've liked that extra $100k in equity but I'm still going to come out on top with a 1st class unique property in a prime location.

          Comment


          • #6
            Marc and I have been to one of their seminars with Dan speaking......it didn't entice us to spend $4000 to join them and we know people that are members that have had a couple of surprises along the way.
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            Comment


            • #7
              When Mr MacEwan talks about "39 developments under their belt" what does he actually mean? The thing which gets me about this organisation is that they have completed very few developments yet sold a lot off plan and probably taken the sales commissions.Shoalhaven in Takapuna is still a carpark after 2.5 years yet The Georgian development opposite started after Shoalhaven was launched and is now finished.So what is going on? They seem to have a pattern of approaching existing developers and selling their stock to members and then in their advertising giving the impression that the Forum is the developer.(Kate Shephard?) Perhaps other members here who know could list what they have finished and advise what actual experience the McEwans have at development.And I mean actual development not selling. I doubt that even the largest guys in NZ (like Kitchener or Melview) could handle 39 on the go at once. Where are the Project Managers and the support needed to get these done? In the mean time while everyone waits who is carrying the holding costs? The members? It is also dangerous to assume that the land bought for a development two years ago has been going up either. The value of an undeveloped site is going, to a certain extent, be dependant upon a margin being able to be extracted when developed.Margin being sale price of the built units less construction and land cost. There is a limit to what people will actually pay for a unit so if construction costs have gone up are these sites feasible for development any more? Hmmmm

              Comment


              • #8
                I know the Amber Mews development in Christchurch was been completed in Dec, but do not own a unit myself so cannot advise on build quality etc. I have heard the Trio group have had difficulties in finding tenants for all the units.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have not yet got one development under my belt so ask me again in a few months, but I think developers have the reputation of absolutely glossing on the best case scenario in order to sell off the plan - especially to investors. Like the CHCH development, likely they are pricing the rent too high - there's nothing you can't rent in my experience at the right price!

                  but they need to charge a premium because they told their investors so...
                  or so they make their yields...

                  My development I am doing all on the worst case numbers, be that rental figures, valuation range, etc.

                  it's my own money in there as well as borrowed money, so I will make sure not a single cent slips through the cracks. I have even written my own contracts for suppliers and project manager just so it's in writing what is covered, what is not, what is fixed (everything) and what happens if worst case this and that (an item is not available, who is responsible if a subcontractor hired by the project manager is no good, etc etc.) every single thing I could think of. What happens if council does not approve. (i get every single cent back.)
                  This is just me mitigating every single risk I can...and also not asking for the world, because otherwise the parties wouldn't sign would they. ( and they have.) I also even wrote in clauses protecting the contractors from ME being a nightmare...

                  So by the time I have done 39 I imagine people will be absolutely begging me to be involved. These guys just sound like they are a bit...howsyourfather in their approach. My 'integrity' if you like is greater for other people's money than it is for my own. I will take a calculated risk on my own purchases but not for others. I would see a development with finance partners exactly the same way.

                  I have no idea whether 'the developers' are being accountable or if they are just subcontracting out to other developers and then saying 'we are not responsible for the price increases' because they farmed that out anyway...

                  it's a sorry situation

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi MiniMogul, that's great, you've obvioiusly got enough experience, confidence and time to do those developments yourself.

                    Most of us don't, so we're reliant on property developers if we want to purchase a new property, but as you've pointed out when you do this you're exposed to many risks out of your control. Any sophisticated investor should be aware of these before they go into it them.

                    A smart investor would also have done their own research to back up the claims of the developer, although sometimes this is hard to validate when the properties are unique to the area (like the Chch property).

                    I think the IF contribute more to the property market than those sharks that put up buildings full of 30m2 apartments that blight the Auckland skyline, or dodgy-leaky-building townhouses that pop up on someones front lawn. If the forum produces the goods they say they can then we'll get some high quality developments in excellent locations that will add value to these areas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am still doing research on IF, so my comments are not directed at them specifically, however:

                      The point I am focused on is in relation to the sales approach developers find them selves in when competing for business.

                      I suggest it is not enough to present the scenario of best returns in which ever sales format, I suggest that the developer has an ethical duty not only to the prospective client, but to themselves and their industry to present also the worst case scenario.

                      In fact (this may be happening) since you can insure for anything in todays world an option to insure against the worst case scenario should be provided and planed for in the project.

                      Every profession, through regulation (self-imposed or otherwise) is moving towards a higher professional standard. There is no reason that the market should not expect or encourage developers to do the same.

                      It is not sufficient to say "caveat emptor", by the next resurrected developer, knowing the many "worst case scenarios" that have arisen and can arise, developers are still holding on to the notion that "greed is good", until the worst case scenario becomes reality.

                      Originally posted by MiniMogul
                      I also even wrote in clauses protecting the contractors from ME being a nightmare...
                      That clause Id like to see...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        as of January 2009...

                        How's the investment in the "first-class unique property" going?

                        I think this is a typical example of the media taking a story and twisting for their own purposes, ie they'll be looking for any negative stories on the property market as the boom stories are old news now.

                        I'm a forum member and have a forum investment property, so also have first hand experience. Their communication to their members is poor I can say that, and the developments are taking longer than expected and costs have gone up. But when global steel costs go up 50% and there is a labour shortage eveyone needs to share the burden.

                        This disillusioned investor sounds a little naive, there's no free ride.

                        Sure I would've liked that extra $100k in equity but I'm still going to come out on top with a 1st class unique property in a prime location.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Investors forum and McEwan were discredited and exposed as dodgy a long time ago totaranui.
                          The thread is almost 4 years old that you posted a reply in.
                          From memory it was Matt Gilligan that exposed them initially, (I could be wrong about that).

                          1 of many articles in public domain LINK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            sorry, couldn't resist

                            I was researching the McEwan failure for some potential property buys from the liquidator and the thread came up..shdn't have rubbed salt in the wounds.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              totaranui,
                              oh no, when it comes to dodgy spruikers like the McEwens, feel free to rub as much salt as you like!
                              I wonder what has happened to the unsold units in Crystal Waters.

                              Comment

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