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  1. #1041
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    1,237

    Default

    A Capital gains tax would fix most of Gareth's concerns, but to be fair it would have to apply to all asset classes (shares, gold, start-up companies, antique watches, classic cars). After all, most angel investors putting $200K cash into a start up company are not in it for the cashflow, they are in it for the big "sell-up-to-the-big-guys" capital gains pay-day. in 2-5 years.

    Robin


  2. #1042

    Default

    He owns property and no doubt rents some of it out.

    But, I guess while Mum and Dad investors try to find the best and workable path to creating wealth, there'll always be some non tax paying rich warlord trying to stifle and keep the poor man poor!!

  3. #1043
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    1,237

    Default

    Oh - yeah - I forget to mention.... whichever government brings in a comprehensive capital gains tax almost certainly loses the next election...... so what are the chances (even if it is the best path forward for the country as a whole)

    These are, after all, politicians with all their usual compromises and conflicts of interest baggage, not angelical pure benevolent patriarchs.


  4. #1044
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    5,086

    Default

    And another thing..

    He has picked the $500m figure from the 2 out of 28 years where property investors received a net tax rebate (spending or depreciating $1 to get back 38c), rather than the other 26 years where investors paid tax.
    DFTBA

  5. #1045
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    1,259

    Default

    Yeah, I've put in a comment on the article saying that. Don't know if they'll publish it.

  6. #1046
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    119

    Default

    I think the main point he is making is that the huge investment property industry contributes little to no tax considering the amount invested and that many people deliberately make a loss for tax benefits, unlike a business.

    It would be great if year by year investment / returns could be shown rather than just the 2 big loss years being highlighted everyone.

  7. #1047
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    1,518

    Default

    Farmers have made losses forever and ever. How about applying the same new rules to them?

  8. #1048
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    1,584

    Default

    I don't buy into the whole "unproductive industry which creates nothing and pays no tax".

    I mean developers, property investors (some), property managers, builders, painters, plasterers, electricians, engineers, plumbers, drainlayers, valuers, lawyers, inspectors, consultants, lawnmowers, cleaners and a plethora of other professionals and industries all have a heavy reliance on property and property investment making up a huge amount of all their work, profits, and taxable income. This is never mentioned.

    Why is there also no mention of all the GST that is paid on rents collected and services provided? Or the billions of dollars paid every year in council rates (which is basically a tax)?

    Real estate is possibly the biggest industry in New Zealand and contributes more to the economy and tax coffers than anything else does.

  9. #1049
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Mordor
    Posts
    1,048

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spurner View Post
    I don't buy into the whole "unproductive industry which creates nothing and pays no tax".

    I mean developers, property investors (some), property managers, builders, painters, plasterers, electricians, engineers, plumbers, drainlayers, valuers, lawyers, inspectors, consultants, lawnmowers, cleaners and a plethora of other professionals and industries all have a heavy reliance on property and property investment making up a huge amount of all their work, profits, and taxable income. This is never mentioned.

    Why is there also no mention of all the GST that is paid on rents collected and services provided? Or the billions of dollars paid every year in council rates (which is basically a tax)?

    Real estate is possibly the biggest industry in New Zealand and contributes more to the economy and tax coffers than anything else does.
    Really? I'm sitting in a house built in 1939 and have every confidence it will still stand in 2039. The house will provide a home for at least 3 generations.

    I drive a Toyota (Japan) am writing on an HP laptop (Malaysia) and enjoy eating sundried tomatoes (Italy).

    The last three items wouldn't exist for me if NZ didn't sell stuff to the rest of the world. The foreign exchange earned allows us to lead our privileged lifestyles.

    No amount of gardening, renovation, and housebuilding within NZ will pay Hewlett Packard or Toyota for the products they make in Asia. There is nothing wrong with owning property but lets not delude ourselves that it is productive.

  10. #1050
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    110

    Default Rental property most definately part of productive economy

    Hi Winstone

    With respect, I think you are taking a very narrow view of production in the economy.

    By your definition, anyone who doesn't produce something is not part of the productive economy. This means that hairdressers, lawyers, accountants, supermarkets and other retailers are not part of the productive economy.

    But without these service providers the companies that actually do produce items would not be able to function.

    Providing rental accommodation is an essential part of keeping workers productive.

    Employing others to keep our rental property functioning contributes to the turnover of goods and services which also keeps keeps our economy productive.
    Andrew King,
    Too many tenants in your property? Hire a sleepout and increase the rent
    Andrew King Property Management Services - NZ Property Investors' Federation


 

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