Integrity has no price - unless it’s PropertyTalk’s??

[PeterEmpowerEd]

I just received PropertyTalk’s current ‘promotion’ email for Richmastery’s latest tax lien-snake oil-teaser-hard sell-extravaganza. It’s brimming with brazen exaggeration, questionable claims and the usual Richmastery hype:

“...#1 Proven Real Estate Cashflow Weapon Revealed by Respected Industry Experts for $19.95 and Receive $621 of Bonuses!!” -- “...without doubt one of the greatest undiscovered wealth secrets of our time.”

Oh please, I thought. What a sick joke.

But it made me wonder: When will Marc and Donna (PropertyTalk’s proprietors) wake up to the damage their long business partnership with Phil Jones has cost them and their reputation?

Even friends shake their heads at the ongoing prostitution of this bright couple’s talents ... and their use of the PropertyTalk website to amorally promote spruikers, plagiarists and wolves in sheep’s clothing.

A mortgage professional I spoke to today mentioned the latest PT banner ad for Richmastery and said, “Even if PropertyTalk needs the money, there are some things they shouldn’t do.”

As much as I like Marc and Donna personally, I had to agree. Knowing what they know, it seems a bad call.

And then tonight I got PropertyTalk’s Richmastery tax lien ‘promotion’ email.
Even worse.

Perhaps like Coldplay’s song Clocks, the folks who run PropertyTalk could ask themselves:

Am I a part of the cure

Or am I part of the disease?

[Marc]

I just received PropertyTalk’s current ‘promotion’ email for Richmastery’s latest tax lien-snake oil-teaser-hard sell-extravaganza. It’s brimming with brazen exaggeration, questionable claims and the usual Richmastery hype:
Quote:
“...#1 Proven Real Estate Cashflow Weapon Revealed by Respected Industry Experts for $19.95 and Receive $621 of Bonuses!!” -- “...without doubt one of the greatest undiscovered wealth secrets of our time.”
Oh please, I thought. What a sick joke.

But it made me wonder: When will Marc and Donna (PropertyTalk’s proprietors) wake up to the damage their long business partnership with Phil Jones has cost them and their reputation?

Even friends shake their heads at the ongoing prostitution of this bright couple’s talents ... and their use of the PropertyTalk website to amorally promote spruikers, plagiarists and wolves in sheep’s clothing.

A mortgage professional I spoke to today mentioned the latest PT banner ad for Richmastery and said, “Even if PropertyTalk needs the money, there are some things they shouldn’t do.”

As much as I like Marc and Donna personally, I had to agree. Knowing what they know, it seems a bad call.

And then tonight I got PropertyTalk’s Richmastery tax lien ‘promotion’ email.
Even worse.

Perhaps like Coldplay’s song Clocks, the folks who run PropertyTalk could ask themselves:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Martin
Am I a part of the cure

Or am I part of the disease?

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the feedback Peter. PT is doing well and is not in any major financial difficulty.

I also do get feedback from other members that you seem to enjoy attacking PT behind our backs. This is a refreshing change of tack for you.

Please also feel free to unsubscribe at anytime from our promotions mailing lists.

We are an independent site and I seem to recall your banners running on PT at one stage. If someone told me that your business was a sham should I listen to them?

Cheers

Marc

[Rosco]

I agree with Marc.

I thought Property Talk was here as an independent information source about property. Therefore I don't think it is up to property talk to decide what is appropriate for readers, and it shouldn't stop any firm from advertising on it.

I'm not a big fan of Richmastery either, but it's up to readers to decide if they want to click on the banner or enrol for Richmastery seminars. No one is forcing them too!

Just realised, I should have complained when GRA was advertising on Property Talk. How dare property talk advertise another accountant on their website. ha ha.

[Rosco]

Also I found it quite interesting to read what Richmastery is currently up too.

I might not like their style, but over the last 5 years they have actually given some investors some great information. Just wish they weren't so greedy.

Ross

[Dean@Massiveaction]

I also felt the revulsion at the email in particular but I can choose to not receive them. M and D have an impossible job of trying to be impartial doves in a shark infested pool.
I think they do an amazing job.
If reading false and misleading sales pages from PJ is the price I have to pay for such a wonderful resource I'm ok with that.

[Austrokiwi]

Hi Peter,


I also do get feedback from other members that you seem to enjoy attacking PT behind our backs. This is a refreshing change of tack for you. Not to mention the lawyers that contacted us....



Cheers

Marc

Perhaps I have read this with "the wrong tone of voice" as it seems to me that it would have been much more satisfying to see a response that rose above the standard of PeterEmpowerEd's initial post.

[Monkeyboy]

What amuses me is when the RM banner is paraded across the top of the Richmastery thread. How many people would click on the banner after reading that thread. It's almost a way for PJ to defend himself.

Peter if you are that disgusted why not take some of that hard earned money made from your lawsuit and advertise here. That way you might be able knock PJ off the top.

And I didn't get the email. What am I missing.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Nothing Mike, nothing at all :-)

[PeterEmpowerEd]

I know my comments will be hard for some to hear, but there's a line, in my view.
It's more than a matter of 'style'. The normalisation of hype and deceit in marketing like this is wrong, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.

I'm not claiming to be a saint, or perfect. Because I don't post anonymously, any critical comment makes me a target for personal attacks and cardboard cutouts impugning my 'motives' (I've been clobbered here on PT before) but you know...

To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. -- Elbert Hubbard

[Monkeyboy]

Peter, do you read the newspaper. Because the trash they call the news is worse than the trash PJ puts out.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

You're making personal attacks about Marc and Donna's integrity Pete, what do you expect?
If the issue is that you don't like PJ's marketing then say that.
Making emotive comments about PT's reputation is asking to be attacked.
PT's reputation and profile is outstandingly good. Phil advertising doesn't harm that, no matter how distasteful it may be.

[whitt]

This thread does raise a valid point though.
Even though PT is independant members probably expect ethical businesses to use the email service.


In my opinion I would hope PT owners prescreen applicants whom wish to use the service. Decline any companies they feel unethical, and remove or edit ads as required should they have excessive hyperbole, misleading claims etc.

If the owners do this and have guidelines, then I have no hassles.
After all I did subscribe to the promotions newsletters.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Is it practical to put that level of responsibility on PT Whitt.
That is not a straight forward call in many cases.
A very prominent educator I know for example is a convicted sex offender. Should he be prevented from advertising.

There is nothing illegal in PJ's latest pocket hoovering and fleecing exercise. We as subscribers should accept responsibility to exercise our brains and ignore stuff we don't like surely?

[Davo36]

Peter,
Well the quality of 'education' from Richmastery is definitely at the bottom of the barrel. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see that. I find it a bit tiresome to see all their rubbish at the top of the site too (Smash the Recession Tour banner right now).

The quality of education from your organisation is usually demonstrably higher. But there hasn't been anything useful from you guys for some time. The evenings where you get to catch up with Olly and the others to hear what they have to say look to be a complete waste of time (and I did get the audio CD/DVDs from one evening and listened to them - came away none the wiser). I don't think anyone knows what's going on with the world right now and to pretend that these guys do (whilst capitalising on the public's confusion) isn't a whole lot better than what a RichMastery type place would offer.

So you are holding EmpowerEducation and your stable of commentators out to be above all the usual hype and nonsense. The thing is, I'm not sure that this is the case right now.

David

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Good morning. Thanks for your comments, and for thinking about it.

This thread does raise a valid point though.
Even though PT is independant members probably expect ethical businesses to use the email service.

Yes. Exactly.
What's wrong with PT saying, "Actually, we're not comfortable with this type of promotion ..." ? Does that damage their ‘independence’? After all, look who the email is From: PropertyTalk.com Promotions



That 'sender line' is an endorsement, as I see it ... and I’m not the only one.
Isn't that sort of what the finance guy who raised the banner ads with me yesterday was getting at: "...there are some things they [PT] shouldn’t do," he said.

Dean’s suggestion, in reply to Whitt’s thoughts, was that it’s not “practical” to vet ads and advertisers.
Not worth the effort? Well, I disagree. To whom should PT’s reputation and actions matter more than PT?

John F Kennedy was fond of saying (mis-quoting Dante in the process, it turns out):

'The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality.'

Look, I know criticism is hard to take. I can be every bit as thin-skinned and defensive as Marc. (But trying to smear me as a hypocrite seems a sad, unworthy response, as others have noted.)

I’m saying, Hey guys, what you’re doing on PT is mostly great and really valuable. I have long supported the site and the community ... but as we have discussed before, there’s a fly or two in the ointment:
in this instance, LENDING YOUR GOOD NAME, your intelligence and your business expertise to the service of dubious marketing in this way is not being discerning, in my opinion. In fact, providing a platform for such promotion makes you look like their accomplices (or collaborators, poormastery would have said, did say.)

These are completely PropertyTalk’s business decisions to make, of course.
Surely it’s OK to give feedback and discuss it?

P

(PS Yes, I’d noticed my email client tagged the message as 'junk e-mail'. Microsoft gets some things right.)