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  1. #1

    Default Disappointing show by APIA

    All,

    Please see below an e-mail trail of disappointment regarding my dealing with the APIA. I think itís pretty self explanatory. You might like to read from the bottom to the top to get the chronology.

    I kept my word by posting it. Itís a shame APIA canít keep theirs.

    The Dog
    (Stuart Ingram)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: 22 March 2009 21:51
    To: Miss X
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal



    Hello Miss X,

    On the 15th of February, you told me my NZ Property Investor magazine was in the post. I have not received it, although I have received the APIA newsletter, which proves to me a) APIA knows my correct address and b) the postman knows where my front door is.

    On the 13th February, I promised if the situation with my mag subscription was not addressed, I would post the entire e-mail string on a public forum. As the APIA Board members have not had the courtesy to respond, I have no option.

    I would like to make a few points in parting.

    1) If, in October 2008 when I first missed the NZPI mag you had said to me ďDear Mr Ingram, we have made a mistake, could you please pay the short-fallĒ I would have said ďno problem, and thank you for letting me knowĒ. But instead, you decided to stop posting the mag with no notification.
    2) If APIA November correspondence took the form of an apology, I would have been happy to pay the money.
    3) If you had of honored your commitment of e-mail 26 Nov 2008 23:19 I would have been happy. But you retracted it 4 minutes later.
    4) If the APIA Board members had responded promptly (or indeed at all), as you requested of them 27 Nov 2008, I would have been happy.
    5) Where are the magazines you ordered for me 22nd Of December?

    The bottom line is, APIA are in breach of Contract. This entire sorry situation could have been avoided with just a little communication, common courtesy, and professional behavior. I regret to say APIA is void of all 3 attributes.

    As the majority of NZ rental properties are in Auckland, the APIA should be flying the flag for the NZPIF, but instead the association has been characterised by back biting and infighting ever since the last election. In these times of tight credit, the requirement for strong representation and leadership has never been greater, which makes the poor performance of the APIA all the more disappointing.

    I understand why the APIA is strapped for cash, firstly members are leaving in droves, and secondly money is being spent on legal fees for a dispute that is of the Board Members own making. Both the dwindling membership and legal battles could have been avoided had a little professionalism, communication and common courtesy been applied. Itís comes as no surprise those are the exact elements missing from my experience of the APIA.

    It does strike me, after speaking to other property investors that have left the APIA, that there is going to be no one left to vote out the existing Board. Given the lack of professionalism displayed, I guess itís out of the question they will stand down. I therefore despair for the future of the APIA.

    So, farewell Miss X. I doubt we will correspond again. Please feel free to use the remainder of my APIA subscription however you see fit. Please cancel my subscription and remove me from your mailing list.

    Regards
    Stuart


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miss X
    Sent: 15 February 2009 18:07
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Stuart

    I had already posted off your February magazine to you I believe Wednesday last week Ė due to Waitangi Day I had not been able to get spare copies of the magazine until Tuesday last week hence the delay. Since your postal address is in the UK I would imagine that would take a while.

    Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss X

    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Friday, 13 February 2009 11:33 a.m.
    To: Miss X
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hello Miss X,

    Please note this is not aimed at you, but rather the APIA Board Members.

    Itís now 6 weeks since I last heard from you and over 10 weeks since The Board Member were to consider my situation.

    As I said from the outset, the reason I pay my subscription to the APIA was to support a supposedly profession body providing a voice for the property investor community. You can probably guess, Iím extremely disappointed that the Board has not had the professionalism nor common courtesy to respond.

    Iím loathed to leave the situation here, as such incompetence should not go unchecked. If I do not receive a response by close of business Monday 16th February (NZ time), I will post this entire e-mail on a public forum.

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miss X
    Sent: 22 December 2008 03:31
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Yes Stuart Ė I am still waiting to hear from them but in the mean time have ordered you the magazines.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss X


    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Monday, 22 December 2008 1:14 p.m.
    To: Miss X
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Dear Miss X,

    Are the Board going to offer me the courtesy of a response?

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miss X
    Sent: 27 November 2008 22:28
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Noted
    Your case has been forward to the appropriate persons and hopefully you will receive a more considered response.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss X


    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Friday, 28 November 2008 11:29 a.m.
    To: Miss X
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Dear Miss X,
    Whether one can "construe" the exchange of emails (4th April 2008) are the initial or critical acceptance and offer in this case is perhaps academic in that there is no doubt a contract in place, I paid money to the APIA and they accepted and acknowledged a contract by sending me the magazine. Stopping the magazine is a breach of that contract.
    Furthermore, whether you have any 'internal' authority within the APIA is completely irrelevant. If you (or your predecessor, Miss Y) make agreements (whether verbal or written) with the Public as a representative of the APIA, a contract (under common law) is formed and binding.
    Despite the aforementioned, I don't think this matter will be resolved with legal banter. I'm more than happy for the Board to decide on the way forward, and look forward to a well considered response. The APIA often talk about raising the professionalism amongst NZ landlords, and here is an opportunity for them to lead by example.
    Yours sincerely
    Stuart Ingram.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miss X
    Sent: 26 November 2008 23:23
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Stuart

    With regard to my previous reply, please kindly disregard as this is an issue for the board members to decide on and I am in no position to make an offer and acceptance on behalf of APIA, neither was Miss Y previously acting in the capacity of the office manager. Apologies.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss X


    From: Miss X
    Sent: 26 November 2008 23:19
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Stuart

    Totally understand the issue at hand and sincere apologies for what has been perceived as Ďadministrative blunders after blundersí.

    Looking at the email thread that you had kindly forward through, I appreciate that it can be construed as an offer and acceptance with requisite consideration passed over. Both myself (office administration) and David Baty (CEO) had only started our posts with APIA in October. Unfortunately our predecessors had not brought the special arrangements made between you and APIA through them to our attention. I appreciate that you do not enjoy any membership benefits apart from the magazines as I am sure you can appreciate the nature of this organisation and our need to cut costs. But as there has been a valid agreement made prior to our office, I am happy to continue honouring it. I will make contact with the magazine house and ask that they send you the November and December magazines in the post asap.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss X


    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Thursday, 27 November 2008 12:12 p.m.
    To: Miss X
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal
    Importance: High

    Dear Miss X,

    You will see on the attached e-mail, when renewing my APIA membership, that I specifically asked (4th April 2008) if the renewal fee included for postage to the UK, and the reply (also 4th April 2008) was explicit in stating that postage to the UK was included. You will note the e-mail chain then continues with the APIA losing my payment.

    The most annoying aspect of this fiasco is no attempt was made to contact me and explain why you had decided to arbitrarily terminate my magazine supply.

    I joined the APIA to support what I was told was a professional body campaigning for the NZ landlord. Being in the UK, I can not access any of the monthly meeting, the product or service discounts, and the only benefit I receive(d) is the magazine. Unfortunately, my experience of the APIA has been nothing but administrative blunder after blunder. This is not the first time I have not received the mag.

    There is offer and acceptance as detailed in the attached e-mail, therefore we have a contract. My membership, at the agreed (and clarified) cost, includes one years supply of the NZ Property Investor Magazine, and I expect you to honour that contract.

    Yours sincerely
    Stuart Ingram

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miss X
    Sent: 25 November 2008 23:40
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Stuart

    Unfortunately you have not been receiving the magazines because your postal address is outside of New Zealand. For every magazine we send out to you the distribution company charges us $17.00. So far we have been bearing that cost but because APIA is a not for profit organisation, we are unfortunately not in a position to foot that cost any longer.

    Including the magazines you are missing (November), I have worked out that you are owed 8 more magazines until your membership runs out at the end of June next year. If you would still like to receive these magazines, we will have to pass the postage cost onto you (which is NZD$136.00). If you could give me your credit card details to debit that cost from then we can be in a position to ensure that you keep receiving your magazines until your subscription runs out.



    Kind Regards,
    Miss X

    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2008 10:40 a.m.
    To: Miss X
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Miss X,

    The London address is correct, because thatís where I am! Please ensure the post code SE16 7BN is clearly used as that is the key to correct postage in Britain.

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miss X
    Sent: 24 November 2008 19:51
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Stuart

    Thank you for your email.

    Please let me first introduce myself, my name is Miss X and I am the new Miss Y since two weeks ago.

    I wonder if you are able to update your postal address for us? We seem to only have a London address?


    Kind Regards,
    Miss X

    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2008 2:53 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Miss Y, me again.

    I havenít received the NZ property mag again this month. I see on the net itís called ďAvoid the burnĒ and was issued on the 3rd November. Could you please look into it.

    Kind Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia
    Sent: 10 August 2008 22:36
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Stuart,
    The post code is on the list that I send to the publishers I think their computer system must be dropping it off. I will email them and make sure it is kept there.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss Y


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Thursday, 7 August 2008 9:13 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Miss Y,

    I returned from Holiday on Sunday to find July's copy in the post, thank you.

    And miracle of miracles, August's copy arrived today, only 2 days after issue date!!

    I think I might have discovered the reason things are going missing, the post cost is not included in my address. Could you please ensure it's added in.

    Stuart Ingram
    Bla bla bla

    United Kingdom

    Many thanks.

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia
    Sent: 24 July 2008 20:55
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Stuart,
    I will send one from here.

    Miss Y

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Friday, 25 July 2008 5:20 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal


    Hi Miss Y,

    Sorry to bother you again, but the mag has not arrived yet. I think it
    might be officially lost in action.

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: 14 July 2008 21:13
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal


    Hi Stuart,
    Your definitely on the mailing list. The magazine is sent from the
    publishers on the first Monday of the month. The first Monday was 7th
    of July, given that your in the UK I wouldn't have thought it would have
    been with you just yet. Let me know if its not their in the next 5
    days.

    Miss Y

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2008 5:46 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal


    Hi Miss Y,

    I received the June issue some weeks ago, but no sign of the July issue
    yet.
    Could you please check all systems are go?

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia
    Sent: 17 June 2008 21:35
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Stuart,
    I've started it in July but will post you a copy of the June Magazine
    now.

    Miss Y

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 8:41 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal


    Hi Miss Y,

    I don't mind my membership starting in June if it means I get the June
    issue
    of NZPI. It's difficult for me to pop down the bookshop and collect a
    copy.

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia
    Sent: 17 June 2008 21:30
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal


    Hi Stuart,
    Have found it. My accounting system had been away with the accountants
    for the last 2 months. Your payment would have been the one we couldn't
    account for. I will start your membership from July as half of June has
    already gone.

    Kind Regards,
    Miss Y

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 8:30 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi there.

    I paid for it by electronic transfer (internet) from my ASB account
    xx-xxxx-xxxxxx-xx, on the 12th May. I would have put 'ingram' in the
    payment details.

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia
    Sent: 17 June 2008 21:13
    To: 'Stuart Ingram'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Stuart,
    I haven't received your renewal or payment. How did you pay for this?

    Kind Regards,
    Miss Y


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 4:08 a.m.
    To: 'Admin @ Apia'
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Miss Y,

    I paid this on the 12th May, but have not jut received this months NZPI
    mag. Could you please confirm my membership has been extended?

    Regards
    Stuart

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Admin @ Apia Sent: 04 April 2008 01:11
    To: Stuart Ingram
    Subject: RE: APIA Membership Renewal

    Hi Stuart,
    This does include postage for sending the magazine to the UK.

    Thanks,
    Miss Y

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stuart Ingram
    Sent: Friday, 4 April 2008 4:02 a.m.
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: APIA Membership Renewal

    Please confirm these fees include for sending the NZ property mag to the
    UK.
    Regards
    Stuart

    >----Original Message----
    > From: [email protected]
    > Date: Apr 2, 2008 9:50:11 PM
    > To: Stuart Ingram
    > Subj: APIA Membership Renewal



    Dear Stuart


    Thank you for belonging to the Auckland Property Investors Association



    The APIA Board would like to thank you for being part of the
    Association. Just another reminder that your membership expires next
    month on 5/31/2008. To continue receiving your magazine and other APIA
    benefits, we would like to invite you to renew for the following year.
    We have many great initiatives planned, including many speakers at our
    monthly keynote meetings, which will be free to all paid up members.
    I would like to remind you of our member discounts which include Dulux,
    Placemakers and Veda Advantage (previously Baycorp). Veda Advantage
    provide massive savings on credit checks, property and auto checks with
    APIA membership covering the usual Veda Advantage membership fee of
    $225.00 per year.
    Consider the potential real savings that you can receive from membership
    of APIA:

    Benefits Annual Value
    10 Monthly meetings $ 400.00
    2 Guest passes $ 80.00
    12 copies of NZ Property Magazine $ 102.00
    Tax deductible membership fee $ 74.00
    Veda Advantage membership
    > (formally Baycorp Advantage) $ 205.00
    Rebates & Discounts $ 200.00
    Discounts on Seminars $ 1,200.00
    Total potential benefit $ 2,261.00

    These savings do not include the many other discounts available from
    other companies or the $40.00 paid to the NZ Property Investors
    Federation, who lobby nationally on our behalf and seek extra discounts
    to ensure we can keep our costs down to a minimum.
    If you would like to renew your APIA membership now, please reply to
    this email and fill out the following form by deleting unrequired
    options and including your payment details. Alternatively you may print
    the form and post or fax it.


    Kind regards



    Sue Tierney


    President,
    Auckland Property Investors Association

    Send to:
    Auckland Property Investors
    Association, P.O. Box 10-104, Dominion Rd, Auckland.

    Fax to: 09-815 8641

    or reply by email (delete those options that don't apply)
    Individual ($225) Couple ($325) Business ($618.75)
    * My membership type has changed. Please send a replacement Invoice.
    I'm paying by:
    * cheque
    * Visa
    * Mastercard
    Internet banking
    > ASB account #: 12-3067-0247714-000. Include name & phone number
    Card No:
    .................................................. .......................
    ..
    .....................

    Name on Card:............................................. .........
    Exp.Date: ........../..........

    Signature:........................................ ......................
    .......................
    Last edited by Perry; 25-03-2009 at 10:55 AM. Reason: disabled smilies in text

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,067

    Default

    Bummer dude,

    On the bright side, now you can spend the $225 on Car mags or Playboy.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    5,756

    Default

    Just sent a link to this thread to the CPIA with a comment or two.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Beautiful Waitakere Ranges
    Posts
    519

    Default

    I had trouble renewing in November 2008 as well. Didn't hear from them for ages after having paid via bank transfer and didn't receive any mags either. But it was finally sorted out after 'only' a couple of months.

    Have to say I've been highly amused by the ongoing infighting, and those emails issued by the various 'fractions' of the board last year were just hilarious. A public display of total incompetence!
    High resolution Fractal Art on quality canvas: www.FractalArt.co.nz

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,578

    Default

    I had issues but that was only because I didn't notice their fax number wasn't working. Once I got that sorted, I had no issues. Magazines started turning up (they even did the change of address that went with the renewal).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    auckland New Zealand
    Posts
    5,236

    Default

    I gave up resubscribing in the end, very similar to Dog. Join the traders instead and get the mag through them!!

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks Keys, I was going to send the link but re-read your message and realised you have already done it. It would be good if the APIA Board could be ousted (by the Central body) as they are bringing the entire organisation into disrepute. Auckland is the powerhouse of the entire NZ economy, and as such should be well represented. Not run by people that can't even grasp the very basics of communication, even after being given every opportunity.

    Since writing my e-mail I have read other threads involving the APIA, and a common theme seems to be poor money management. For me, it was never about the money, it was about being extended the courtesy of a response, but the APIA didn’t seem to twig to that. It does worry me that an organisation that is supposed to be supporting property investors building wealth has such a poverty mentality. Tight financial control of (rental) income and expenses are key skills for a property investor, and leadership should display those attributes.



    Dean, I have been to the PropertyPlus (Traders) site and can't see any reference to getting the mag through them. Is it an option?

    TD

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Bay Of Plenty, NZ
    Posts
    3,604

    Default

    You could always go straight to the publisher and order it from them.
    Patience is a virtue.

  9. #9

    Default

    Yes, I was on the publishers site today however they don't have an item (subscription) for overseas buyers, although they do mention the overseas price. I can't work out how to clear checkout at the increased price.

    Is nothing ever simple?

    I'll have to e-mail them.

    TD

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    5,756

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Dog View Post
    Yes, I was on the publishers site today however they don't have an item (subscription) for overseas buyers, although they do mention the overseas price. I can't work out how to clear checkout at the increased price.

    Is nothing ever simple?

    I'll have to e-mail them.

    TD
    Send it to me, I'll forward it to you.
    Last edited by Keys; 24-03-2009 at 10:51 AM.


 

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