• Login:
Welcome, Register Here
follow PropertyTalk on facebook follow PropertyTalk on twitter Newsletter follow PropertyTalk on LinkedIn follow PropertyTalk on facebook
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 43
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    122

    Default Worst tenant - tenancy tribunal unbelievable result

    Here is my story - quite unbelievable. I brought an IP in Hamilton April last year. I live in Auckland, it was a brand new 2brm townhouse in a block of 5. Had it managed at first, but the property manager caused strife with my first tenants so they moved out. Next tenant moves in solo mum with a baby. I managed it myself. Missed a few rent payments, when the 3rd payment was missed and I couldn't reach her I went there.
    Knocked on the door and a young man answered who I found out was her partner. He said she had gone to jail for 8wks for minor offenses, but all her stuff was still there. His mother was also there. He said he wanted nothing to do with his ex partner and a few days later asked if he could take over the tenancy, he was getting custody of the baby and winz were going to pay the arrears. Mother backed him up on this. With his agreement I issued a tresspass notice on the ex partner that was in jail.
    All the money came through from Winz and rent was being paid from then on. Six weeks later there was a missed rent payment and a few days later I got a phone call on a Sunday from the tenant saying the unit had burnt down the previous evening, but he was sunbathing NAKED outside at the time. He said he was alone.
    The police called me as it looked suspicious. I then went there and the insurance assessors also said it looked suspicious.
    I received a 27 page fire report which indicated suspicious circumstances, accelerant was used all the way through the report, however at the end it said it couldn't be proven without doubt so therefore indicated accidental.
    I then had to go to the tenancy tribunal to fight for the bond refund. I applied for loss of rent as he had not paid the weeks rent 3 days prior. The excess for insurance is $400 and I claimed for rent in leu of notice. All were declined and I only received 3 days rent, for the time prior to the fire. It cost me $20 to apply to the tribunal, plus 3 copies of the fire report and postage to the court, plus my time off work to travel there and gas.
    I found out from the police the tenant is known to them as a P user and he also said to the judge the fire started by a candle burning down, while he was outside sunbathing. His partner was also at the house at the time of the fire. They were not cooking P

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4,018

    Default

    Geez, sorry to hear about your misfortune.

    One question: if the fire was ruled accidental, why do you think that the TT should have awarded you the insurance excess and rent in lieu of notice from the bond?

    Regular courts have a "reasonable doubt" test for evidence. The insurance/fire investigator report states that it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the tenant caused the damage intentionally. Do you think that the TT should have a lower burden of proof?

    I'm not sure, I'm just wondering out loud.

    Did the insurance company pay out to get the unit rebuilt?

    Paul.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    122

    Default

    The fire happened last November, to date the unit has not been rebuilt yet. The insurance covers the rent and also the rebuild. I phoned the TT prior to submitting a claim. They told me that even if it looked like the tenant was at fault but not proven, then the TT may award the bond to me.

    Even if accidental, the tenant is still liable for damages, if someone burns oil on the stove while cooking and the place burns down, they are liable and should pay excess. Thats what TT told me and also gave example of a case where that happened.

    Rent in leu of notice, if a tenant gives notice you can take any potential new tenants through to view prior to them moving out. In this case when the property is ready to be let, my rent insurance stops from that moment, so I will be unable to get rent for it, while I look for a tenant. Tenant also signed a 6mth lease.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4,018

    Default

    The tenant signed a 6 month lease.

    The premises were destroyed. At the point at which the premises were destroyed, rent stopped being due. So no rent is due in lieu of notice.

    Even if it were, you would presumably only be entitled to two days rent in lieu of notice. That is because in the situation you describe, they had to give you only two days notice to terminate the tenancy.

    You had to give them 7 days notice to terminate the tenancy.

    It is all there in the Residential Tenancies Act 1986. Don't worry what some call center employee at Tenancy Services says, just read the Act. (I'm not trying to be rude, I really do sympathise.)

    Look on the bright side - your investment will be worth more when it is rebuilt than it was before it was destroyed. You will one of the few in NZ who has experienced growth over the last few months.

    Paul.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4,018

    Default

    As for the insurance, why would they have to pay your excess?

    If the hot water cylinder blows up and causes several thousand worth of water damage, do you expect the tenants to pay the excess?

    Sure, one suspects that the tenants were at fault, but with the official finding being that the fire was accidental, you're probably fighting a losing battle.

    It needs to be shown that the tenant intentionally or carelessly damaged the property, if you are to recoup any loss. Presumably this was not established at TT. Perhaps more could have been done to argue that the damage was a result of carelessness, and not purely accidental? Have you got a TT application number so we can have a look at the case online?

    Paul.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    122

    Default

    I guess I am just a novice, flying by the seat of my pants. I just jump in boots and all and do it.
    Why would it be worth more once the rebuild is complete, property prices have decreased in the past year?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Who would have thought you would have problems renting to a beneficiary and ex convict....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    7,562

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hele27 View Post
    I guess I am just a novice, flying by the seat of my pants. I just jump in boots and all and do it.
    Why would it be worth more once the rebuild is complete, property prices have decreased in the past year?
    building will be new
    have you defeated them?
    your demons

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4,018

    Default

    My Mum and Dad had their house trashed and torched in Hamilton 3 years ago.

    I was rebuilt, and was worth more due to the better building standards now than when it was built (e.g., insulation, rewired, replumbed). They had it valued, which confirmed the increased worth.

    How old was your unit?

    Being brand spanking new, you should be able to claim lots of depreciation!

    Paul.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4,018

    Default

    How long ago was the hearing?
    Last edited by SuperDad; 28-02-2009 at 07:30 PM.


 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Tenancy tribunal consultancy
    By Maccachic in forum Finance, legal and tax (NZ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-06-2015, 12:33 PM
  2. Tenancy Tribunal
    By brend in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 15-09-2014, 04:37 PM
  3. Tenancy Tribunal
    By fullom in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-03-2014, 12:28 PM
  4. Tenancy Tribunal....
    By MBuschy in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-10-2012, 11:57 AM
  5. Tenancy Tribunal
    By keleri in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-03-2012, 02:09 AM
  6. Tenancy tribunal help needed pls!!!
    By NIK in forum Property Investment (NZ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 22-09-2010, 10:04 PM
  7. How quick to get tenant to leave at tenancy tribunal
    By markw1 in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 07-08-2009, 10:23 AM
  8. Tenancy Tribunal rules
    By Sharon in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 24-10-2008, 06:56 PM
  9. Can the Tenancy Tribunal be right?
    By TenantTrouble in forum Tenant Stuff (NZ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 16-06-2008, 09:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •