Murray Rothbard : The Gold Standard Before the Civil War

[Badger]

Why is our dollar shrinking?

Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson understood "The Monster". But to most Americans today, Federal Reserve is just a name on the dollar bill. They have no idea of what the central bank does to the economy, or to their own economic lives; of how and why it was founded and operates; or of the sound money and banking that could end the statism, inflation, and business cycles that the Fed generates.


From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfyp_i7y1t0

[Steve Netwriter]

Badger,
I don't know whether I should admit this, but I've never seen a video of Murray Rothbard !!!!!
I know, I know !!!!

Thanks
Downloading that one

[Badger]

hope it downloads ok, Rothbards a very interesting chap

http://mises.org/money.asp

....heres the e-book link be worth your while to have a read Steve, makes more sense to me than Social Credit....

[Austrokiwi]

Serious question Badger:

Was there are Gold standard before the US Civil war? Some references would be helpful. The reason I ask is that I thought the US and the world prior to the silver war were on a Silver standard. The US Especially the southern States were using the Spanish 8 real piece ( Pillar Dollar or Mexican Dollar).

[atiff]

Wikipedia lists these:

Gold Standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

1834: United States de facto at 20.67 dollars to 1 troy oz (31.1 g) gold

Silver Standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_standard

The United States adopted a silver standard based on the "Spanish milled dollar" in 1785. This was codified in the 1792 Mint and Coinage Act, and by the Federal Government's use of the "Bank of the United States" to hold its reserves, as well as establishing a fixed ratio of gold to the US dollar.

[Austrokiwi]

Wikipedia lists these:

Gold Standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
Silver Standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_standard

Cheers and thanks so officially The US was on a silver standard and had a defacto Gold standard......from those links I understand Silver was overvalued and gold bled out of the US and Silver flowed in. I reality I suppose one could conclude the US was on a bimetallic standard.

I know in the 1870s the US went to a sole gold standard some say that was a catastrophic decision

[outspoken]

No Austro, the catastrophic decision was to remove the gold standard. That ws only 38 years ago!

[Austrokiwi]

No Austro, the catastrophic decision was to remove the gold standard. That ws only 38 years ago!

Your taking my comment out of context and more seriously: need to study history a lot more!

A number of contemporary writers attributed the first great depression (1870s- 1890) to the institution of a gold standard {while getting rid of the silver standard}......They believed the Gold standard removed substantive amounts of money from the global economy and as a result there was a major crash!!!

It always amuses me those who want to run back to a gold standard, they seem to not realise that the creation of a gold can be massively damaging as it, arguably, was in the 1870s............... With the gold/fiat currency debates you can go back to the early 19th century to find the same arguments being made as they are today! Seems the wheel turns and nothing really changes!!!

[Austrokiwi]

Your taking my comment out of context and more seriously: need to study history a lot more!

A number of contemporary writers attributed the first great depression (1870s- 1890) to the institution of a gold standard {while getting rid of the silver standard}......They believed the Gold standard removed substantive amounts of money from the global economy and as a result there was a major crash!!!

It always amuses me those who want to run back to a gold standard, they seem to not realise that the creation of a gold can be massively damaging as it, arguably, was in the 1870s............... With the gold/fiat currency debates you can go back to the early 19th century to find the same arguments being made as they are today! Seems the wheel turns and nothing really changes!!!

Sorry I re-read what I wrote and relaised that it comes across as arrogant and condescending.........thats not how I ment it to come across......... I bleive a gold standard is not a cure...... all just as a fiat currency isn't the cause of all our current problems.....Booms and busts still happen under specie based currencies based currency's just as they do under fiat Currencies....... IMHO what is more important, than our money is, is the rules and regulations the ensure risk and greed is adequately managed.

[Badger]

I know in the 1870s the US went to a sole gold standard some say that was a catastrophic decision

It was helping create the 1870 depression you like to mention. It was a government decree, nothing to do with we the people or how silver and gold function in a free market. Thats the point, as you state here...

A number of contemporary writers attributed the first great depression (1870s- 1890) to the institution of a gold standard {while getting rid of the silver standard}......They believed the Gold standard removed substantive amounts of money from the global economy and as a result there was a major crash!!!

It always amuses me those who want to run back to a gold standard, they seem to not realise that the creation of a gold can be massively damaging as it, arguably, was in the 1870s............... With the gold/fiat currency debates you can go back to the early 19th century to find the same arguments being made as they are today! Seems the wheel turns and nothing really changes!!!

The argument was from the people. Why are government and bankers removing silver when we the people have decided that silver can also be used as money - a means of exchange?

Probable Answer: Vested interests the ancestors of the current elite had the gold.

The majority had decided in the free market of doing things in silver other than gold.

That wouldnt have been popular if you had the all gold.

Thats the function of a free market. The market back in 1870 under a mercantilist system was more free than todays illusion, since central banking was not a established practice and many regions ran there own deals in free trade....

Seems the wheel turns and nothing really changes!!!

Naturally and the way things are going it's doubtful it ever will.

The last few pages on the Gold and spec thread tell me this. Nothing is meant to change Austro in all facets of life, there is no discussion, theres not meant to be.

In the connect the dots reasoning of now, this current *financial crisis* is a *artificial* and *engineered* event. As was the removal of the silver use in the 1870's....

Consider the current financial *crisis* began with elites meddling and manipulating.

The big wheel keeps on turning....

[VincyV]

What would provide a balance ?

Gold was too constraining to growth (hence the 'barbarous relic' epithet), unfettered fiat money (since 'bretton woods' was abandoned) has been disastrous leading to current situation.

The new order that will surely come out of the current mess will need to find a balance i.e. have the ability to allow a little slack to stimulate growth but also a pull back mechanism to rein in excess. Especially a mechanism that does not depend on a world reserve currency controlled by one country.

What would that be ?

[Badger]

Gold was too constraining to growth (hence the 'barbarous relic' epithet), unfettered fiat money (since 'bretton woods' was abandoned) has been disastrous leading to current situation.

The new order that will surely come out of the current mess will need to find a balance i.e. have the ability to allow a little slack to stimulate growth but also a pull back mechanism to rein in excess. Especially a mechanism that does not depend on a world reserve currency controlled by one country.

What would that be ?

Growth is irrelavent. Its a misconception of false economics based on finite resources.

The elites have a plan already through the IMF for a one world currency. But it will be controlled by the same entites as now and in the past.

Its another form of hydraulic despotism...

Hydraulic despotism: central control of an essential energy such as water, electricity, fuel, medicines, melange . . . Obey the central controlling power or the energy is shut off and you die!
DUNE

Money/commodity such as gold has a *energy* content since it takes energy to extract it.

[Austrokiwi]

Growth is irrelevant..................So no promotions no increase in wealth........... IMO Badger this IS just so outside of the way every one expects live their lives.

You will just have to realise I can't accept what you saying about growth, as I don't think we could find any meeting point on this one. Now back to the speaker whose 40 minutes of video was posted at the start of this thread..........How can you expect any one to trust a speaker whose basic premise is wrong..................The time he refers to the US officially only had a silver standard?

[Badger]

Growth is irrelevant..................So no promotions no increase in wealth........... IMO Badger this IS just so outside of the way every one expects live their lives.

Its about progress not growth.

You will just have to realise I can't accept what you saying about growth, as I don't think we could find any meeting point on this one. Now back to the speaker whose 40 minutes of video was posted at the start of this thread..........How can you expect any one to trust a speaker whose basic premise is wrong..................The time he refers to the US officially only had a silver standard?

Silver is far more useful for day to day transactions. Like MT's were used...

The U.S. dollar uses the decimal system, consisting of 100 equal cents (symbol ¢). In another division, there are 1,000 mills or ten dimes to a dollar, or 4 quarters to a dollar; additionally, the term eagle was used in the Coinage Act 1792 for the denomination of ten dollars, and subsequently was used in naming gold coins.

I guess the Coinage Act of 1792 dosnt count for you then Austro?

[Austrokiwi]

Its about progress not growth.



Silver is far more useful for day to day transactions. Like MT's were used...

The U.S. dollar uses the decimal system, consisting of 100 equal cents (symbol ¢). In another division, there are 1,000 mills or ten dimes to a dollar, or 4 quarters to a dollar; additionally, the term eagle was used in the Coinage Act 1792 for the denomination of ten dollars, and subsequently was used in naming gold coins.

I guess the Coinage Act of 1792 dosnt count for you then Austro?

Its not that it doesn't count.............may be I am wrong...........I just understood that officially the US had a Silver standard. Gold was used for large transactions but it was valued against silver which was the primary means of exchange. A gold standard, as I understand it, has the currency backed by gold specie. Therefore gold is the primary means of exchange ( under a gold standard).