PM "resigning" and outstanding tenant issues

[essence]

Touching on the issue of 'how' it could possibly be further collected (or the appropriate address located) if I take the agency to the disputes tribunal is it possible that they will say I still have an avenue to have the matter heard if I find the tenants address by other means? Would the PM be within their rights to say they have done all they could?

The question is not about getting the money from the tenant, it is now about the level of service not received from the ex-PM which cost you $xxxx because the ex-PM did not use a correct and timely procedure to lodge a claim with TT.

If the ex-PM then wanted to recoup their money, it would be up to them to find the tenant and claim the money from them.

Don't confuse the issue. It's about the management NOT about the tenancy.

[NESW]

Many thanks Essence.

[Glenn]

One of my old work mates from another "life" used to be a PM for a REI firm. He told me someone took them to the DT and won. They had to pay. He asked for a copy of my management agreement. My comments to him was I would have thought that the institue would assist their members and recommend an appropriate water tight agreement.

Without a doubt the whole issue of managing residential properties is one of problems. Some owners get upset when a tenant leaves and does not clean up fully or some other nasty stuff.
Regardless of who manages the property owner, Independent PM, or REI PM, I do not believe 100% of the properties will have zero issues regardless of the quality of the management.
In more than one occassion I have been dispensed with due to maintenance issues. Like blocked sewer. Too expensive said the owners and their answer was to sack me.
In other cases I have had a near perfect tenant. At the end of the tenancy the owners have lost the plot because of some issue related to fair wear and tear.

[Inecute]

Hi NSEW,
We are having similar issues with our PM and would be really interested in any feedback on how you go and don't mind letting you know how we go.

We are going to be taking our PM and company to the REINZ first as ours has breached the code of Ethics of the REINZ (I'm putting my faith in these guys integrity) if this is unsuccessful we will be going down the track of Disputes Tribunal.

The trouble with some of these people is they have no integrity and cover their tracks really well one bit of advice GET EVERYTHING and I mean everything in writing. Other wise it is he said, she said as far as the courts go. Not trying to be cinical but just experiance dealing with the people we have come across.

Don't give up there are some good PM's out there just do a few check ups yourself here and their till you feel secure.

Are your properties in a city or small town location? It just sounds so similar to ours.

[Perry]

Without a doubt the whole issue of managing residential properties is one of problems.

Regardless of who manages the property, I do not believe 100% of the properties will have zero issues regardless of the quality of the management.

Or 100% of the tenants!

But, Glenn et al, isn't that the sum of it?

There will always be 'issues.'
The scale will vary.
The cost will vary.
The PI's reaction will vary.

Been going through two of mine, in the last few days,
after tenant departures. Combined tally, so far . . .
4 blown bulbs.
One mangled extractor fan louvre-set.
One fully dirty stove
One stove with dirty warming drawer
One shoe-rack airer in the w'robe organiser partly mangled
(by the tenant's kids - no doubt)
One entrance door with a splintered edge.
Pantry door hinges with loose screws.
One shower curtain growing fungii.
More daddy longlegs and webs than I thought possible.

Oh, well - sighs long and deep.

Them's the breaks. Small beans, really. At least no unpaid
rent issues. Fair wear and tear? No, not really. But, just
how big an issue is it? Or how big an issue do I want to
make it?

I actually owe one tenant $150! I'll bet her socks will fly
off when I pay her, because she's forgotten.

I know that departs from the REA PM 'thing,' somewhat,
but I'm adding this commentary because I go along with
Glenn's implied perspective. I.e. we have to take the rough
with the smooth; the good with the bad; the long-term view.

Look at the proverbial bottom-line result in the annual fiscal
statements, rather than become depressed for the 5 weeks
it takes to let a vacancy that seems to have become intractable.

Sometimes, learning these 'lessons' is hard. And extended.

And have I had some fun with one of the new tenants?!?!?!
Started moving in today. Another story, that is . . . . .

But, as has been expressed or implied many times on PT,
hire a PM that's attached to a REAgency - at your peril!
Their overall, industry-wide reputation is not good. At all.

[Glenn]

Them's the breaks. Small beans, really. At least no unpaid
rent issues. Fair wear and tear? No, not really. But, just
how big an issue is it? Or how big an issue do I want to
make it?

.

That is one of my points Perry.
I continue to be amazed at the various reactions of owners.
Sometimes they nut off about a tenant leaving a few leaves on a path and at other times shrug off quite serious damage.
Sometimes I think they are blaming me and then they turn and praise me.

The whole business for PM's, regardless of the small print on the shingle hanging out the front, is our emotions can be on a roller coaster.
Most people crave for recognition, love, and kind words.
This is important to the worst of us.
We all hate being put on the mat and called a rat.

I was in tribunal last week and the adjudicator let slip a comment about me ripping someone off. I do not think she meant to say it that way but that was the way it came out.
She had noticed a contra credit to a tenants account.
I let her know I was not in the business of ripping people off. That is why we had credited a tenants account. Yes we had given a tenant some money and not told the tenant.
Suddenly her whole attitude changed. The penny dropped.
The adjudicator noticed that we had undercharged the tenant for some rent when she moved from one property to the other and for the first two days had charged the tenant at the lower rate.
She then proceeded to tell the tenant that she was on the win and to stop complaining.
That judgement went our way.

So folks perhaps you need to start considering your PM's as a master conductor of a circus.
Sometimes you need to cheer and sometimes you need to shout disapproval.
Just do not shoot the man with the long whip.
Otherwise the show will be over and you will not get a refund.

[Cassandra]

Its a tough job!

Yes, sometimes PM's get blamed for tenant behavoiurs. Managing tenants can be like raising kids...and the wee bundles of joy you chose to have in your homes come with thier own very distinct personalities. Like parents, good PM's put boundaries in place, take necessary steps to minimise antisocial or harmful actions and react when and how they are able - within the law (RTA) -but in the end it is the individual (tenant) that commands his/her own freewill on how he/she chooses to behave and if they will take responsibility for thier actions- or not.

[NESW]

Hi NSEW,
We are having similar issues with our PM and would be really interested in any feedback on how you go and don't mind letting you know how we go.

We are going to be taking our PM and company to the REINZ first as ours has breached the code of Ethics of the REINZ (I'm putting my faith in these guys integrity) if this is unsuccessful we will be going down the track of Disputes Tribunal.

The trouble with some of these people is they have no integrity and cover their tracks really well one bit of advice GET EVERYTHING and I mean everything in writing. Other wise it is he said, she said as far as the courts go. Not trying to be cinical but just experiance dealing with the people we have come across.

Don't give up there are some good PM's out there just do a few check ups yourself here and their till you feel secure.

Are your properties in a city or small town location? It just sounds so similar to ours.

sorry for the delay in replying, we have just moved countries and our gmail addy wasn't being accepted on the site as our email addy, so just fumbling along until back up and running with broadband and a proper email name again...

Our properties are on the outskirts of a fairly major town, now happily re-tenanted via an independent property manager, who I knew from business elsewhere and knew to be a very thorough professional, and had gone into private practice.

Re my other issues, I settled upon presentation of a solution by the agency.

Yes I am still out of pocket major dollars, but have one tenant go through the court system and have a attachment order on her benefit, as well as the record for future landlords, but as the others have recommended, at times you have to roll with the flow.

Of course when you are in the middle of it, its difficult to see the sun from the moss, and I must say if i hadn't had the impending move, another issue in regard to our rebuild that looks set to go into deeper waters, and the trials and tribulations of moving countries, schools and employment I am sure I would have chased this issue more thoroughly....

But yes, if one lesson has to be learned, engage a private (independent) PM every time, at the end of the day its their business and they do appear to care very much. My new one even had her partner mow our lawns whilst advertising our properties and hasn't even charged us for their time, travel or even the work involved. she certainly deserves more than her regular management fee!

[Inecute]

Interesting

Ahhh if only our issues were minor....

I do agree lessons learnt, hind sight is always such a wonderful thing but to date, to my knowledge, a time machine has not been invented to remedy this.

I'm talking about much bigger fishies as far as lack of management not general wear and tear and chump change.

Why do we as property owners have to let these rat bags who give the industry a bad name and steal from us (because THAT is what they are doing when they take management fee's and don't do their job) be allowed to get away with it!

Just my opinion as Industry Law allows an employeer to take an employee to court for theft as a servant with up to a 2 year prison term and paying back what they stole.

There really is no excuse for a small minorities dishonest behaviour and maybe, just maybe, if there were real tangable repoccussions for their actions they would think twice about being dishonest and show more integrity.

Why do one or two spoil it for the many? I bet the other PMs would agree that they hate being tared with the same brush as these people and would gladly have them weeded from their ranks.

How many people do you know who have taken action and had any successful outcome? Who's keeping a tally? NO ONE.

Why is there not a register for the ones not to deal with?

Nesw glad to hear you had a resonable outcome gives us some sort of hope at least.

All advice has been gladly taken on board.
Winger one oh one out.

[Perry]

Well, Inecute, there is always PT - for those in the know.
Not a total substitute, I agree. I wonder if TINZ could
have a section on crappy PMs? Why not ask them?

OK, so people have to pay, so still not the ideal. But,
better than the void you're lamenting, perhaps?

[NESW]

Inecute I understand your frustration with the system as well, and feel these people are being protected under the umbrella of whatever colour sign post the business promotes itself. I didn't bother with REINZ with my complaint, although thought about it, but no one seemed to have a good word about them either.....

However, I do also wonder (in hindsight) that some of these monkeys are only there because the management are paying peanuts?

It seems to me that although property management is bread and butter income to r/e agencies, little care or thought appears to be given to the PM division at all. I am certainly thinking of 2 agencies in our area that I could tar with that brush... and when I have attempted to contact the licencee/MD of one, he certainly couldn't be bothered in returning my calls.

Perhaps the idea of having a register of lousy PM's (individually named and shamed from their employer also named and shamed) might be a good business idea, website based with appropriate advertising and sponsorship? I am sure there are a few tenants out there who would equally like to contribute!

[Glenn]

Oh my goodness. such wonderful advertising.

I and a number of other Independent PM's (IPMA) people are off to a meeting next week with the Ministry of Justice. These MOJ moles are looking into regulating all PM's.
As you can imagine this is being driven by the recent passing of the RE agents act. Natually the REI is saying we are a pack of rat bags.

We need everyones help to protect our businesses.

The National party members of the select committee were very rude and arrogant towards the IPMA members who made verbal submissions to the REA. We have a fight for survival ahead of us.

Take note there is more than one way of winning in business.
Just do the kiwi rope trick.
You climb up the rope and pull it up after you.

[Perry]

REAs always featured in more than a few National
party candidate line-ups, in the past.