Difficult tenant writes great story

[Keys]

Why don't you advise the tenant in writing that you will bring any interested people around between x and x.30 on Tue, Thu and Sat. If they don't agree (preferably in writing), or they refuse to let you inside, then you would have a very strong case.

I disagree.

In this instance, the tenant sets the conditions - not the LL.

To write to the tenant, and have your conditions listed with a "sign this or we're off to court" statement, would weaken your case.

[whitt]

What about a variation of Spurners idea? Do you need to notify each time?

Tell tenant you are bringing people around mon, wed and fri at xxx time. That would cover most the week and you could run it like an open home.

If somebody wanted to look through then they would only need to wait one day.

Or you could change days and times each week and give tenant notice once a week of coming times.

[Glen]

This thread shows all more reason why I stick to fixed term agreements only, rather than periodic.

[Cassandra]

And teh difference is????

This thread shows all more reason why I stick to fixed term agreements only, rather than periodic.

Plaese explain....how do your FT tenants react to you advertsing and showing prospective tenants thru before the end of their FT...especillly if they wanted to stay?

[xris]

I disagree.

In this instance, the tenant sets the conditions - not the LL.

To write to the tenant, and have your conditions listed with a "sign this or we're off to court" statement, would weaken your case.

I agree with this.

[xris]

This thread shows all more reason why I stick to fixed term agreements only, rather than periodic.

How does that affect anything?

xris

[Glen]

Plaese explain....how do your FT tenants react to you advertsing and showing prospective tenants thru before the end of their FT...especillly if they wanted to stay?

This thread (as I said) though is relating to someone who wants to leave, and in that case it would be in their best interests to allow viewing at the drop of a hat if needed.

After all, they're the ones wanted to break the agreement.

The more frequent they allow viewing, then the sooner you can find a suitable replacement, and the less that they will lose out of their bond.

[xris]

This thread (as I said) though is relating to someone who wants to leave, and in that case it would be in their best interests to allow viewing at the drop of a hat if needed.

After all, they're the ones wanted to break the agreement.

The more frequent they allow viewing, then the sooner you can find a suitable replacement, and the less that they will lose out of their bond.

What if they are not wanting to break the lease but will be leaving at the end of the fixed term? Same as a periodic is it not?

xris

[Cassandra]

Exactly!

What if they are not wanting to break the lease but will be leaving at the end of the fixed term? Same as a periodic is it not?

xris

Yes- its' easy for a LL to have the upper-hand of showing a property to-let whenever convenient to "assist" a tenant desiring to exit a FT early....but a LL counting /hedging on this is outside of the norm

[Cassandra]

back to Glenn's original e-mail

I am not taking sides, but Glenn did threaten the tenant with legal action if the tenant did not see things Glenn's way. The reaction to that was a clumsy but undestandable 'get st**fed'.

As a LL in this situation I would not rate my chances at the TT.

xris

Reading - as Glenn says -from bottom to top of what Glenn posted ; I presume Glenn- after recieving tenant notice -had sent a formal written confirmation of this notice to terminate thier tenancy. I probably use a similar "template" letter that outlines - in case there is any doubt or misunderstanding - expectations that i have as tenants vacate the tenancy. All good PM practice to make sure nothing is overlooked and the tenant is aware of expectations so that their bond can be refunded without delay. Without seeing the context of Glenns letter- but following the flow of correspondence- it certainly looks that the tenant took exception to this and reacted in a smartarse if not retaliatory "get st**fed" stance in her e-mail response to this "formal letter" (and maybe she is special ?!) before Glenn mentioned "legal action"

[spurner]

I disagree. Nowhere in the RTA does it state or imply that the tenants are allowed to dictate when or how any viewing is to take place, nor set any conditions. The only thing required is reasonable notification.

By providing notice a reasonable period of time in advance as to when viewings are going to take place is entirely reasonable. This way the tenants have advance notice and can make any preparations they deem necessary, and everyone knows where they stand. The tenants don't have the right to disallow this or set conditions to it.

This is a letter/notification to the tenant; it isn't necessary for the tenants to sign it. And I certainly wouldn't recommend making threats of legal action in the letter like you mention either!

This way you can clearly show the TT that you have provided reasonable notice to the tenants. And in the event that the tenant creates problems, you have a much better chance of achieving some recourse through the TT.

As the current situation stands, there is lots of insinuation but nothing tangible written by either party.

I disagree.

In this instance, the tenant sets the conditions - not the LL.

To write to the tenant, and have your conditions listed with a "sign this or we're off to court" statement, would weaken your case.

[Glenn]

A couple of little corrections there folks.
The tenant is a male and is in a fully legit business of property developing.
I have had lots of these situations before.
The more successful and bigger bank balance they pretend to have the more difficult they can be. This one is the first to put it all in writing on the email.
Very foolish to commit this sort of stuff to written form because I then have the evidence of his lack of reasonable access.

The last property developer to act like this was an ex army officer.
I just told him that we both have to comply with the law. I did not make the law I just operate under it. He calmed down at that point and conceeded I had a good point.

This prickly fellow did not respond like the norm.
Clearly he has other issues going on in his life at the moment. Who knows if they are good or bad things. Being in the property development business in in a variety of towns around NZ we can only make our guesses.

There was an earlier letter he wrote demanding a long list of things to be done plus a significant rent reduction. He said if we did not meet all these conditions then he would need to give notice.
Having set his own trigger limits he really painted himself into a non negotiable situation. Strange really because he said after a couple of weeks in the property he was starting to love the place.

Perhaps many of us landlords and parents need to remember this. Never threaten to do something to get your own way if you are not comfortable with carrying out those threats.

Meanwhile I have located someone today who wants to take it sight unseen. I have known her familiy for many years so the credibility and trust factor is alreay set. Living in small city NZ does have it upsides occassionally.

She has seen the pictures on the net and has fallen in love with it even though I have told her the current tenant is not happy with having done the same thing. I am getting the same rent also. I think I will try and get her through though. I will use the good services of my highly skilled assistant PM. This hopefully will be harder for the tenant to be rude. Always hard to be rude to an intelligent attactive woman.
Men tend to lob missiles at each other compared with women who just scratch each others eyes out along with a bit of hissing.

[xris]

I disagree. Nowhere in the RTA does it state or imply that the tenants are allowed to dictate when or how any viewing is to take place, nor set any conditions. The only thing required is reasonable notification.

Quite incorrect spurner.

Read s48(3) for example.

The landlord may, with the prior consent of the tenant (which shall not be unreasonably withheld) and subject to such reasonable conditions as the tenant may attach to that consent, enter the property.

This is not clear cut at all and will be judged on a case by case basis.

"You're not coming through at all till I am gone!" is clearly a breach.

You can come along on Friday between 5-6pm and Sunday 12-1 pm if you give me at least 24 hours notice by phone,may or may not be reasonable depending on the situation.

The tenant is in the stronger position. This is all part of the skill of the LL.

And, to bully the tenant is very risky because there is that issue of 'quiet enjoyment' whether we like it or not.

xris

[Glen]

Yes- its' easy for a LL to have the upper-hand of showing a property to-let whenever convenient to "assist" a tenant desiring to exit a FT early....but a LL counting /hedging on this is outside of the norm

....and as I had already written was in regards to the initial point of this thread (which was a tenant wanting to leave early),..and in this instance I merely pointed out that this is where a FTT agreement suits me a hell of a lot better than a periodic agreement, and also that this problem of Glenns' wouldn't be as it is.

If, as in the example from xris, it came towards the end of the end of their FTT, and the tenants wanted to be difficult, then BIG DEAL!,....I'd still advertise the property from pics that I already have, and wait for the tenants to finish their term and move out.
I would then just start showing people through the next day as I use the opportunity to fix anything, paint, tidy up etc.

I think you need a 'breather' sometimes between tenancies anyway to check things over.

Worst case is that you might lose a weeks rent, but you have a fresh new property with an increased rent

Do you personally own any IPs' Cass, or do you just manage other peoples?
Different story again aye, and a whole new discussion!

[Cassandra]

Yay Glenn

Looks like you've got it all sussed- an optimistic outcome for you, along with an understanding of what was behind the tenants behaviour. Phsycology 101- an understanding of behavior and another persons perceptions goes along way in knowing how to deal with conflict or to understand other peoples motivators.

While I still contest strongly a LL right to show a property once notice is given- Xris is right to point out that LLs are vulnerable as tenant's have an stonghold in this situation and LL skill in handling people will be put to the test because even if you have access granted under duress tension in the atmoshpere with a tenant in residence can be an almost tangible deterent when showing tenant prospects. If LL skill & PR can be applied to win over or appease a reluctant/hostile tenant then hopefully the property gets re-let without delay
:-).