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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3,936

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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyLizzy View Post
    Hi Lincoln, and welcome to the forum.

    THanks for your post, which I am sure many will find interesting and which will stir up much debate!

    Just wanted to let you know that I moved this out of the Welcome Newbies forum into this one where I think it's more appropriate.

    Looking foward to many more posts!
    Lisa
    (Moderator)
    In hindsight maybe the Porperty association sub forum would have been a better place Busy also.
    https://www.propertytalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=33

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Auckland / Cappadocia, Turkey
    Posts
    2,312

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    You're right Whitt, thanks. I overlooked that one. I moved the thread again - sorry peoples!
    Lisa

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    21

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    Both parties have agreed to go to mediation and, I hope, that will be the end of the issue. We can then all go forward.

    As for a special meeting, I believe the issues are so clouded and emotional that members would not be able to work out what is what. It would just waste members' time, give a platform for the parties to vent their spleens, and be divisive.

    Let's allow it to go to mediation and move on with the normal running of APIA and The Traders.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

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    Quote Originally Posted by drelly View Post
    Hi Lincoln,

    Something that I've become increasingly confused about, is exactly what the APIA is trying to achieve for the association? After Ashley was appointed, the APIA seemed to take on a corporate identity and steamed ahead in profit-making mode. I understand the desire to educate but isn't some of the spirit of the organisation being lost in the drive for profit?

    I also understand the anger/frustration at some of the issues surrounding Ashley's departure, the desire to protect the privacy of their membership list and the breach of contract. However, as you've pointed out, so much of this seems to be about the money - the actual financial loss being relatively small compared to the cost of litigation.

    cheers,
    Dave
    Hi Dave (Drelly), I think you're right on all counts, though any profit making emphasis I suspect came as the organisation grew and with it, overheads. The goals have until now, remained the same, being education, and whilst until recently there has been an increase in $895 one day seminars which some may argue eliminates those not prepared to spend, the ability for a member to receive valuable advice from the free monthly meeting or local area meetings remains unchanged. e.g. Kieran Trass for free this coming Tuesday...Yay!!!

    Sadly I think the bigger issue currently facing us as an organisation is "where and when does this current litigation end?" Who makes that decision? Is it Sue on her own? (President); the board by majority vote? (in which case how can we contact them as individuals to lobby them); or do we as members get to vote on the matter, and how far does it have to go before we get to do so?

    Can anyone help me answer these questions please?

    This issue is potentially so big the last option is the best solution. If the board is sick of hearing cries of "vested interest", this is an opportunity for them to show total transparency and willingness to hand power to the members, with a binding vote.

    Cheers, Lincoln

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

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    Hiya Beagle,

    Totally agree with all you say.

    1. Lets hope mediation works. Best possible outcome for both parties :O)

    2. If mediation doesn't work though, what next? APIA needs to have a clear plan before it is needed. Currently that plan is litigation and there appears to be no limits as to how far they will chase this matter.

    The issues are so clouded that a SGM would as you say just allow both sides to vent, and result in confusion.

    And therein lies the opportunity to present the third option...letting it go.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Given what you say, maybe the APIA should let it go. APIA is not a for profit organisation - it is an association effectively owned by its members (correct me if I am wrong).

    Dont you need to opt in for email marketing now. Wouldn't using someone elses list be breaking the law (not for using someone elses list but for distributing spam?
    Hiya CJ,

    You're right, APIA is owned by its members. Which is why, before anyone decides to persue legal avenues which could end up in the high court and spend ($100,000?) shouldn't all members be given the opportunity to vote on such a decision? We have been told in the last two meetings that the assn wants to boost our membership numbers and asked how we can best do so...could this be to double revenue so it can be poured down the toilet that is litigation?

    You're correct re email marketing, that if anyone sends you un-solicited emails without your "opting in" they are breaking the law. That in itself, along with an email to members from APIA to reply "unsubscribe" if any unwanted property related spam is received, should be enough.

    Excellent, now one less reason out of the current four issues being quoted as reasons to sue The Traders/ Ashley Church.

    Very good points CJ :O)

    Cheers, Lincoln

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
    In a lot of cases not for profits have to let it go because the don't have the resources to stand up for themselves.

    The APIA is run by highly successful business people who don't like to lose. They will chase it hard with all the resources they have.

    Gerrard
    Hi Gerrard,

    ...and some resources they don't have too. I wonder if those responsible for deciding to aggressively persue this matter would do so if they had to put up the money themselves. Hmmmm...there's a challenge i'll lay down.

    Can anyone please tell me who is responsible within APIA for making the decision to sue...and at what point we, the members, have any say in the matter?

    Cheers, Lincoln

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildwest View Post
    It is so sad to see such situations happening. I would expect that the members and the APIA committee are all doing what they feel is right.

    Sounds to me like a special general meeting should be called, and all the "issues" should get debated and sorted.

    Anyone know what the constitution allows around SGM's ?
    Hi Wildwest (love your quote :O)

    The really sad thing is the members in general have NO idea just what is really going on. Except what they are being spoon fed from the executive, with our executive "spin" on it. Whoever is driving this is I am sure doing what they genuinely think is right, but they are sadly no longer objective.

    Interesting that you mention "Special General Meetings". I may stand corrected, but at the last AGM, lawyer and board member David Whitburn managed to blurr the issue sufficiently and slide in a change to the constitution that means that now it is near impossible (if not completely impossible) to call a SGM. So much for members owning the assn.

    The phrase "vested interest" springs to mind. Hmmm.

    Maybe someone more learned could please clarify the current situation re calling a SGM at APIA?

    Also, how could I as a paid up member go about getting a copy of the constitution please?

    Cheers,

    Lincoln

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodmin View Post
    Going to end up like Wellington with two PIAs, Wellington and Capital. Both of which are relatively small and I often wonder if the splitting issue was resolved by "letting go" how much better the combined voice etc. would be.

    One of the things I learned a long time ago was pick your battles to win the war rather than fight every battle and lose the overall war because of exhaustion.

    Cheers
    Paul you put that so brilliantly!!!

    Definitely this is a war that even if we did win (and I think the courts will find NEITHER party blameless) our resources will be severely depleted, and we will carry the war wounds forever...financially under-capitalised; divided members; ongoing in-fighting; poor constitution and governance leading to further issues, to name a few.

    And I sure hope we don't end up with a split, though that could very well be the end result if this isn't sorted soon. Totally agree, Wgtn should be the largest PIA in NZ, and I believe would be were it not for their split :O(

    Cheers,

    Lincoln

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln View Post
    Hi Wildwest (love your quote :O)
    Maybe someone more learned could please clarify the current situation re calling a SGM at APIA?

    Also, how could I as a paid up member go about getting a copy of the constitution please?
    Cheers,

    Lincoln
    I am not sure on the litigation and would not like to comment as I do not have all the facts.

    You can get the constitution if it is a society here: http://www.societies.govt.nz or if any other entity go to companies.govt.nz if you know the entity and search in the right register.

    First port of call should be your secretary to give you one. I have not looked at the APIA constitution. Rotorua has education and furtherment of their members as part of it.

    Get enough members and approach the board members with your concerns. Good old democracy in action. If enough people care you get there.

    A split would be sad to see as it divides us even further. What we need is a large unified voice to be heard. The members will be the definite losers as at the very least the teams attention is diverted away from what they were set up to do in the first place: further their members (customers) education and lobby the powers that be for changes to benefit their members.

    Neither of these outcomes are being served.

    Fritz.
    Last edited by Fritz; 10-03-2008 at 11:20 AM.
    Argue for your limitations and sure enough they're yours. - Richard Bach


 

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