• Login:
Welcome, Register Here
follow PropertyTalk on facebook follow PropertyTalk on twitter Newsletter follow PropertyTalk on LinkedIn follow PropertyTalk on facebook
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 75
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

    Default Akl Property Investors Assn vs The Traders

    I'm not usually into forums and blogs, but after my horrific experience tonight I have joined here in the hope of raising awareness re a huge problem which has been brewing at The Auckland Property Investors Association.

    Firstly, the background. Ashley Church was CEO of APIA until around the last elections of board members. I understand his position was made untenable as he was "squeezed out" by several board members who allegedly had a different agenda. So he gave his notice and left.

    The basis of current litigation by APIA is I believe as follows: It is ALLEGED that Ashley:

    1. Broke a one year restraint of trade which prevented him from carrying on in a business in the nature of or similar to that of APIA

    2. Was paid a $13,000 bonus, and that part of that bonus should be repaid to APIA

    3. Before leaving, took a copy of the APIA database, and has since used that information to contact APIA members re his new company called The Traders.


    Tonight a "Communications Meeting" was held for APIA members. The normal monthly meetings usually attract 400 members on average, however tonight there were less than 30. Approx 5 were current board members, 1 x meeting adjudicator, 2 x APIA lawyers; 3 x were from The Traders/Ashley Church; and the remainder were members who had taken the time to attend.

    From the outset it was clearly explained the meeting would go as follows

    1. Update re litigation

    2. Proposed guidlines for nominating board members for next election

    3. Moving Forward, APIA next 12 months

    There would be no interjections, heckling. Questions to be held until after each speaker.

    As the meeting proceeded I came to believe it was deliberately not promoted or given the billing of a normal monthly meeting so there would be a low turnout, as the organisers did not want publicity re the litigation, in fact the exact opposite. Both parties want to mediate, but I believe both parties have some absolutes which they will not back down on, and sadly I think the ultimate course will be through the district courts, to high courts and appeals.

    Tonight I addressed the meeting as follows:

    Is it fair to say that Tony Steindle and his legal firm are not doing the legal work for nothing because of their standing within APIA and commitment to same, that every minute is being charged for? Answer from lawyer: Absolutely, we are being paid for this.

    If APIA wins they may get several tens of thousands of dollars, plus a copy of the database, plus damages for Ashley starting another company within a 12 month restraint of trade. Assuming this goes to court, this will cost at least $50,000 - $100,000 in legal fees; plus take energy away from what APIA should be doing...educating and supporting investors; plus damage the APIA brand via all the mud slinging, some of which will be very public I am sure.

    Why can't APIA just let it go.

    If you as a business person were offered an opportunity to invest 50-100k and 3 years of your life part time, and in return you would MAYBE get as much as 50k in return...would you say that was a good deal? So why do that over Ashley!

    If I have 5k to spend this year on education it is possible that 1k will now go to a Traders seminar...it will not bankrupt APIA.

    If the database was taken and used (I was contacted but it was through my subscription to Dean Letfus' blog not the APIA database), could not APIA minimise any liability for not protecting our privacy, by sending an email out to all members saying if they receive an email from any property education company and do not wish to recieve any more, to reply with "unsubscribe" in the subject line? I mean, come on guys!

    LET IT GO!

    It is interesting that since all this debarkle, The Traders have run a number of one-day or weekend $800+ per ticket seminars. How many have APIA run? I may stand corrected, but I believe the number is a big fat ZERO. Who is the fool now?

    Ashley stands accused of stealing the APIA database and mis-using it. Yet on 14 August 2007 at 6:08pm just 50 minutes before I was to attend and vote at the board elections, I and all other APIA members recieved emails from two seperate senior members of APIA airing their dirty laundry, leaving me now totally confused as to who is right, who is wrong, and therefore who to vote for. As a result I did not attend. I did not vote.

    Sue mentioned tonight that there are constant murmurings of vested interests of certain board members, and that they were tiring. The only solution as I see it is:

    1. Total transparency of all board decisions (except commercially sensitive information)

    2. Without "the tail wagging the dog", the board needs to become accountable to the members again. Currently the constitution allows board members if they are so inclined, to act as the current Labour government..."you voted us in, now we will do what we want until the next elections" (though most of you won't know as we will keep a filter on the info we let out)

    3. A total INDEPENDENT review of our constitution to see if changes introduced by David Whitburn in recent times are acceptable or onerous; rules of conduct concerning board meetings, election of board members, decision making processes; and most importantly, reporting mechanisms whereby all members are informed well in advance (via a variety of means so everyone has an opportunity to contribute) of any major proposed changes, and then there is a public airing, then a vote...not presented by a few to the many in a hurried AGM (after all we cannot keep our guest speaker waiting can we...we dont have to if we DON'T HAVE one eh!) as fait accomplie.

    To summarise, I went to tonights meeting with an open mind. I was not pro-Ashley or The Traders (or a member of, as yet), and though a member of APIA and once very proud of APIA, not thinking we had all the answers or were squeaky clean in how we managed Ashleys last days or post-departure issues. I came away from the meeting feeling some pity for Ashley who as a member came to the meeting to air his side of the story (and which I for one as a member, am interested to hear) after all it was a "communication meeting"... and disgusted with the fact that senior board members seem prepared to get legal (and potentially spend up to 50-100k of members contributions?) without proper (open, honest, not one-sided) consultation with members before asking for a vote. Disappointed that as a grown man Tony Steindle argued points of law like a child in the playground determined to "right the wrongs from others mouths". Has anyone considered that as Tony is a very public APIA member (maybe past board member? Sorry Tony, unsure), APIA should have used a totally unrelated lawyer in this matter, in order to avoid all potential for calls of "vested interest?"

    I believe if mediation fails (and it will) there should be a meeting of members on the big Tuesday, to discuss the litigation; that each side gives their view of events and legalities (flip a coin for who goes first); then a third party (I would volunteer) presents the case for "letting it go"...then a vote.

    Then, a brief discussion on transparency, governance, and the possibility of an independant review and recommendations...then take a vote. No board members involved in this part of evening ....shows a willingness to do as the members wish without manipulation or interference....and avoids any allegations of "vested interest".

    Looking forward to lots of feedback. Is there anywhere else I should post this which will get to APIA members?

    Who knows, at this rate maybe i'll run for president, lol.

    Best regards,

    Lincoln
    Last edited by donna; 12-08-2014 at 04:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Auckland / Cappadocia, Turkey
    Posts
    2,312

    Default

    Hi Lincoln, and welcome to the forum.

    THanks for your post, which I am sure many will find interesting and which will stir up much debate!

    Just wanted to let you know that I moved this out of the Welcome Newbies forum into this one where I think it's more appropriate.

    Looking foward to many more posts!
    Lisa
    (Moderator)
    Lisa

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Hi Lisa, and thanks for the welcome :O) Hoping some good will come of my bringing this out in the open and that people wont just think I am a stirrer.

    Best regards,

    Lincoln

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Whangarei
    Posts
    5,867

    Default

    Hi Lincoln,

    Something that I've become increasingly confused about, is exactly what the APIA is trying to achieve for the association? After Ashley was appointed, the APIA seemed to take on a corporate identity and steamed ahead in profit-making mode. I understand the desire to educate but isn't some of the spirit of the organisation being lost in the drive for profit?

    I also understand the anger/frustration at some of the issues surrounding Ashley's departure, the desire to protect the privacy of their membership list and the breach of contract. However, as you've pointed out, so much of this seems to be about the money - the actual financial loss being relatively small compared to the cost of litigation.

    cheers,
    Dave

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,578

    Default

    Given what you say, maybe the APIA should let it go. APIA is not a for profit organisation - it is an association effectively owned by its members (correct me if I am wrong).

    Dont you need to opt in for email marketing now. Wouldn't using someone elses list be breaking the law (not for using someone elses list but for distributing spam?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,624

    Default Food for Thought

    Umm so are you saying 'non profit organisations' should 'turn a blind eye'? I don't think so - that does not make sense and is sending the wrong message out there - the message that 'they are an easy target'.

    Remember they are spending your $$ - and it's commonsense that they need to protect their resources etc.

    Maybe what you are saying is - there may be a better way with dealing with it?

    Just a few immediate thoughts -

    Cheers,

    Donna
    PropertyTalk Blog - property articles

    BusinessBlogs - the best business articles are found here



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Whangarei
    Posts
    5,867

    Default

    Hey Donna,

    I agree that there is a moral/ethical obligation for them to stand up and make a point but not at all costs.

    The "we don't negotiate with terrorists" approach didn't work anywhere else so I doubt it will work here either!

    cheers,
    Dave

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Welly-town
    Posts
    1,095

    Default

    In a lot of cases not for profits have to let it go because the don't have the resources to stand up for themselves.

    The APIA is run by highly successful business people who don't like to lose. They will chase it hard with all the resources they have.

    Gerrard

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    126

    Default

    It is so sad to see such situations happening. I would expect that the members and the APIA committee are all doing what they feel is right.

    Sounds to me like a special general meeting should be called, and all the "issues" should get debated and sorted.

    Anyone know what the constitution allows around SGM's ?
    Cheers WildWest

    In victory, you deserve Champagne, in defeat, you need it. - Napoleon

  10. #10

    Default Or is Auckland

    Going to end up like Wellington with two PIAs, Wellington and Capital. Both of which are relatively small and I often wonder if the splitting issue was resolved by "letting go" how much better the combined voice etc. would be.

    One of the things I learned a long time ago was pick your battles to win the war rather than fight every battle and lose the overall war because of exhaustion.

    Cheers


 

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. investors/property traders in liquidation
    By annaspanna in forum Property Investment (NZ)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 28-04-2009, 06:49 PM
  2. Wellington Property Investors Assn - Membership meeting
    By Wellington Property in forum Property Investor Associations (NZ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20-08-2008, 04:50 PM
  3. Wellington Property Investors Assn - 28 July Meeting
    By Wellington Property in forum Property Investor Associations (NZ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 22-07-2008, 05:33 PM
  4. Wellington Property Investors Assn - Meeting 26 May 2008
    By Wellington Property in forum Property Investor Associations (NZ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-05-2008, 11:22 AM
  5. NZ Property Traders Assn
    By Propoholic in forum Property Investment (NZ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-11-2007, 01:36 PM
  6. Wellington Property Investors Assn - 25 June meeting
    By Wellington Property in forum Property Investor Associations (NZ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20-06-2007, 06:48 PM
  7. Wellington Property Investors Assn - Last membership mtg for 2006
    By Wellington Property in forum Property Investor Associations (NZ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 23-11-2006, 03:38 PM
  8. Wellington Property Investors Assn - next meeting
    By Wellington Property in forum Property Investor Associations (NZ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 29-09-2006, 07:48 AM
  9. An open invitation to Phil Jones
    By Marc in forum Property Investment (NZ)
    Replies: 116
    Last Post: 11-01-2004, 09:29 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •