Akl Property Investors Assn vs The Traders

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Excuse me, your grievance is showing...

The APIA communications meeting on 6 March was an opportunity for all APIA members (including you, Kim) to be informed and ask questions of the board in person ... about Ashley Church’s sudden departure, related contractual issues, the apparent misappropriation of the APIA database, the litigation with the Traders resulting from all that ... and other matters like proposed new election guidelines and the board’s vision/planning.
For me, the timeline presented by APIA’s solicitor and her summary of the forensic report on the deleted APIA laptop were illuminating. So was the fairly frank general discussion at the meeting -- which led towards mediation.
That widely-advertised APIA meeting was the board’s chosen forum for the appropriate discussion of such issues -- not PropertyTalk. But you didn’t attend it, Kim.

I said earlier I’m not speaking on anyone else’s behalf. Nor am I here to address your movable feast of ‘questions and concerns’. I see them as being raised here in this manner simply to malign the APIA board -- against whom you have admitted you are nurturing a severe grievance.
You’ve been voluble and repeatedly made extremely negative statements about the board volunteers: referring to ‘dirty politics’, a lack of integrity, a ‘hijacked’ election, a ‘gang of 4’, a ‘gross miscarriage of the democratic process’, inexcusable, unconscionable, highly unethical [behaviour] etc etc. -- language fit for a smear campaign, in my opinion. I don’t expect you will agree, but it is.
Your latest list of 7 ‘questions’ about the board’s post in reply illustrates my point. (Into another foxhole looking for mud.)

I made the coffee invitation out of respect for you, believe it or not. Given your declaration that you won’t ‘step foot in another APIA meeting’ under the current leadership (your own respect for them having completely ‘evaporated’) I thought, well, perhaps a middle ground?
I wasn’t offering a ‘meeting’ in any official capacity to sort out your ‘beef’, just a chance to talk things over as association members without the misunderstandings and misreading of tone that can be an unfortunate by-product of email and forum posts. It’s up to you.

As you say, I am defending people I believe to be honest and ethical. Exactly. I’ll continue to do that as I’ve defended others on this forum since I joined in 2003. I care about the ecology of PropertyTalk.
You’ve asked me to ‘step aside’. -- Why should I, Kim? My posts aren’t preventing anyone else from speaking for themselves. While I can’t devote the time and energy to this thread that you clearly can, I’m not going to stand back and watch you defame decent people.

- Peter

[Kseeling]

You’ve repeatedly made extremely negative statements about the board: referring to ‘dirty politics’, a lack of integrity, a ‘hijacked’ election, a ‘gang of 4’, a ‘gross miscarriage of the democratic process’, inexcusable, unconscionable, highly unethical [behaviour]

Thank you for summarising my points so eloquently, Peter. I don't think I could have done a better job myself.

As for our continued sparring over this issue, I'm done. It is without substance and continues to detract from the issues.

As you said, you act in no official capacity.

As I said in my previous post:

Quite frankly your continued deflection away from the issues and onto my motivations and character is getting very tiring. I'm bored of it and I'm sure the readers of this forum are as well.

I'm really surprised someone from APIA hasn't put a muzzle on you because your rants are only serving to keep a spotlight on my issues instead of letting them die a natural death.

[cat]

Well shame on Olly - last October he was only too happy to shout the news out when you employed Ashley - he quoted some correstpondence of yours:

So we are very excited to announce that we have been able to employ someone who shares our love for God and our commitment to integrity and excellence. Someone who wants to help us continue to serve you and the greater investing community in New Zealand. It’s almost like finding a clone for myself and it’s very cool!!

So as my subscribers and friends I wanted you to be the first to know that Ashley Church, former CEO of APIA, has just become the CEO of Massive Action Ltd.

but somewhat tardy when the situation changed. How sad that you lost Ashley when the relationship showed such promise!

Ashley was working for me briefly but is now pursuing the Traders full time so I have exactly zero percent involvement or interest in this situation

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Thanks Kim.

• You call it ‘sparring’ ... I call it standing against efforts to discredit decent people I know and trust.
• You call my posts ‘rants’ ... I see them as carefully-reasoned responses to an ill-willed public campaign.
• To your great surprise, I haven’t been ‘muzzled’ by APIA ... well, life is full of surprises. Here’s one (maybe):
I’m still open to coffee and a chat, if you want. (This interchange has reminded me again how woefully inadequate written communication can be at times.)

See you around the village.
- Peter

PS Sorry, sarcasm is wasted on me, but I'd appreciate you quoting me correctly. I try to be careful about that.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Hi Cat. Ash decided he couldn't do justice to the Traders and Massive Action so picked what was best for him. We are very sorry to have lost him but better to have had and lost, then never to have had at all :-).

I do now have a new (Christian) partner in the business who is a marketing, strategy and admin genius so it has worked out perfectly in the end. I haven't "announced" him because you wouldn't know his name anyway.

[Dianne]

On behalf of the APIA board, in reply to KSEELINGs questions:
The post was written by the board, reviewed and approved by all members of the board via email, and posted by me on behalf of the board once all members had contributed to and approved it. The communications will be accepted into the minutes at the next meeting as part of the Correspondence section of the meeting.

In the interests of achieving a positive outcome from the mediation process no further postings will be undertaken by the APIA board.

[Lincoln]

Well! Having followed the vigorous and sometimes heated debate I am in many ways none the wiser re answers to the real issues at the heart of the dispute, and in other ways I have seen people expose themselves, for better or worse.

Given Diannes Post above, on behalf of the APIA board, could I please ask if the following questions which I asked at the outset (and which could really only be answered by the board?) which to date have not been answered, could please also be accepted into the minutes of the next APIA board meeting as part of the correspondence of that meeting?
Whilst I accept that the board may wish to not answer them for whatever reason, could you/the board please acknowledge receipt of them.

Firstly can I say it is my sincere wish that mediation is successful and that both APIA and Ashley/The Traders finds some middle ground.

In which case my questions 1- 3 would no longer apply.

1. If mediation fails, WHO decides whether or not to persue litigation?

2. If litigation is to proceed, will it be decided beforehand, where will it end? WHO makes that decision? Is there any opportunity for APIA members to be involved in debate/ voting on this issue? If so, what and how please. Would there be a set $$$ budget, not to be exceeded?
After all, we all know what has happened with the Iraq war, it is now official that THE PRESIDENT HAS NOW BY HIS DECISION KILLED MORE OF HIS OWN MEN THAN OSAMA BIN LADEN DID ON 911.

I just need to correct on your recent post where you misquoted me as saying:

·The litigation action will cost $100,000, take 3 years, and will be in the High Court

What I did say, and put in proper context again, is:

"Assuming this goes to court, this will cost at least $50,000 - $100,000 in legal fees; plus take energy away from what APIA should be doing...educating and supporting investors; plus damage the APIA brand via all the mud slinging, some of which will be very public I am sure.

Why can't APIA just let it go.

If you as a business person were offered an opportunity to invest 50-100k and 3 years of your life part time, and in return you would MAYBE get as much as 50k in return...would you say that was a good deal? So why do that over Ashley!"

The reason I said $50,000 - $100,000 is because lets all be totally honest, it would not stop at the district court. It would end up in the high court, then appeal. And that would cost AT LEAST $50,000 - $100,000. Hence the reason for my question 2, mentioned again above.

3. If it does get litigous, is it really appropriate (no offense to Tony or his firm) for Tony's firm to represent us? While Tony is on the board, to avoid all possibility of "vested interest" cries, could I suggest that he at least abstain from any discussion/ voting as a board member on this action?
Or possibly if need be consider using an external lawyer, to avoid the potential for "jobs for the boys" accusations.

4. If mediation does fail, can I please go on record as repeating my earlier offer:
I believe if mediation fails there should be a meeting of members on the big Tuesday, to discuss the litigation; that each side gives their view of events and legalities (flip a coin for who goes first); then a third party (I would volunteer) presents the case for "letting it go"...then a vote.

5. I have a question that no one has answered satisfactorily.

Just before I was to attend and vote at the board elections, I and all other APIA members received emails from two seperate senior members of the APIA board, airing their dirty laundry, leaving me now totally confused as to who is right, who is wrong, and therefore who to vote for. As a result I did not attend.

I did not vote.

Although the issue of whether Sue or David "misused" the database in distributing that email is to me not morally the right thing to do, it is not going to ruin any of us. But more importantly, APIA is accusing Ashley of doing exactly that same thing. The difference is I know I got the dirty laundry email, but whilst I have received emails from The Traders, I believe it is because I am on Dean Letfus' database. SHOULDN'T WE JUST BE LETTING IT GO? Being Easter I can't but help quoting a very famous man who said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

6. Maybe someone can help me out here. Each side is saying the other side is this and that, and effectively there seems to be 4 people on the current board pro "APIA is right, Ashley/The Traders is wrong and we have a case", and the other 4 are either neutral or maybe a little pro the other side. The "other side" appears primarily made up of two of last years board members, plus APIA's former CEO. I have at one time or other seen all people on stage presenting, or functioning as board members, and they ALL SEEM to be good, proper, nice, professional people. So how is it that suddenly there is this huge divide, and assuming one side is right and the other is not, suddenly "good" people have turned bad.

My biggest question is who are the goodies and who are the baddies?

If mediation is successful, will we ever know?

And if mediation is successful and the current situation is sorted, do we really have the appropriate mechanisms ie constitution, transparency etc in place to prevent a similar situation happening again? I have to say that I for one am concerned, and I repeat my call for an independant review of our current structure/ constitution. Even if it cost say 5k (?), to have it either sorted or independantly confirmed that it is already fine and in line with other similar organisations, that would put the matter to rest once and for all and has to be healthy for all APIA members doesn't it?

Now, as for me, i'm off to bed.

[Lincoln]

Given Diannes Post above, on behalf of the APIA board, could I please ask if the following questions which I asked at the outset (and which could really only be answered by the board?) which to date have not been answered, could please also be accepted into the minutes of the next APIA board meeting as part of the correspondence of that meeting?
Whilst I accept that the board may wish to not answer them for whatever reason, could you/the board please acknowledge receipt of them.

Dear APIA board via username "Dianne",

Can I please at least have the courtesy of a "message received and accepted into minutes of next APIA board meeting?", or am I now on the ignore list?"

Many thanks,

Lincoln

[Dianne]

Your correspondence has been accepted as Correspondence Received for review in the next board meeting.

[Lincoln]

Thanks Dianne. Much appreciated :O)

[Lincoln]

Wow! Given the content in this mornings Herald On Sunday and the thread started under Property Investor Associations "Anyone Get this Email Re APIA?" , could it be that what Ashley Church and others were saying is true and there are/were some issues re conflict of interest, transparency (Tony Steindle, Andrew King) and constitutional issues that STILL need addressing URGENTLY (ie open the books and prove the allegations are wrong! Also, if true and only one signatory was been used on cheques and theres no money in the kitty then who's head should roll???) before APIA finds itself insolvent... in the year it is to hold the national conference. Scary stuff!

[BusyLizzy]

Further discussion on this latest issue (as referred to by Lincoln) is found here: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=19924

[dgb2000]

Update

It appears that a board members company acted for APIA and expended tens of thousands of $$$$ of APIA's funds fighting a legal battle that when you look closely was just a personal battle - should APIA's funds be used in this manner???

[whitt]

It appears that a board members company acted for APIA and expended tens of thousands of $$$$ of APIA's funds fighting a legal battle that when you look closely was just a personal battle - should APIA's funds be used in this manner???

Answer is obvious. NO.
What a waste of members money.

[HelenB]

This sounds interesting - perhaps we should ask this in the next AGM, rather than on PropertyTalk, as these forums seem not to be widely read by the APIA, or APIA Board (which is fine).

It would be interesting to know how much was spend? And what was the outcome?