Being held to an earlier landlord's comments?

[xris]

I am after some opinions here on a slightly unusal situation.

I think I know what the answer is but other comments would be welcome

Can a landlord be held to anything said to tenants by an earlier landlord on the same tenancy agreement?

Example...

A new landlord takes over and sees a very large compost heap in the back garden during the first inspection and says that it needs to be removed and serves notice on the tenants. The tenancy agreement has a clause in it about no compost heaps.

The tenants then say that there was a compost heap there when they moved in two years earlier and that the then landlord had said it was alright to leave it there, because it did not bother the new tenants and the first landlord did not want the hassle of clearing it up. There is nothing on the initial inspection report to indicate any compost heap at all and there is nothing on the tenancy agreement to indicate any discussion or understanding or agreement between the tenants and the first landlord.

The tenants say that they will call the first landlord as a witness if the matter reaches the tribunal.

Any ideas about what to do and where all parties stand on this one?

xris

[drelly]

It's quite possible they are right. I'd either just remove it myself or (as it sounds) the tenants are a possibly more trouble than they're worth and you might want to consider either not renewing their tenancy or serving notice.

[Glen]

Xris, why don't you just tell us what the actual problem is instead of beating about the bush?....meaning are you the 'landlord' in question?

If it is just the compost heap, then big deal,........there is obviously a garden there then, so if the tenants don't want to use it then just spread the compost over the existing vege garden or even over any other garden area.End of story,...a half hours work.

Was the property not inspected fully during a previous inspection, and this matter noted to be remedied if needed before settlement?

Either way it's a minor problem that you just fix! All good.

[whitt]

But what if the hypothetical compost heap was another issue a bit more substantial?

Xris's point is then valid.
My gut feeling is that if same agreement then you have a problem.

More like a S&P issue now I guess. House did not meet standard on S&P of the tenancy agreement it was sold on.

[Glen]

But what if the hypothetical compost heap was another issue a bit more substantial?

Xris's point is then valid.
My gut feeling is that if same agreement then you have a problem.

More like a S&P issue now I guess. House did not meet standard on S&P of the tenancy agreement it was sold on.

Well,...that comes back to how vigilant you are in your inspections etc, and also as I had implied, as to what the extent of the problem is!?
If it is only the compost heap, then like I said,....BIG DEAL!....wear it, and learn from it!
It's no problem really in the scheme of things,.....you just learn to to eliminate possible problems next time, and even 'shift' the problem to others less experienced.

[xris]

Slow down! You're both jumping to conclusions from invented assumptions.

Let me clarify a bit and steer you back on course.

No I am not the landlord but I have a fairly close connection with what is happening.

I use the word compost heap euphemistically. I am referring to the pile of garden waste that so often builds up in a garden when the tenant is supposed to maintain the garden and do the lawn. They mow the lawn and dump the cuttings in a corner. Over time a small mound turns into huge problem. Imagine seven years of cuttings in a corner that I had to deal with before Christmas. Grass rots down and compresses but the weight stays there. So seven years of cuttings will compress to something resembling concrete (well, not quite perhaps but you get my point...). In this case the compost heap is really a mound about 1.5m tall and 1.5m wide. I have no idea what lies hidden in it. Plants are now growing freely from inside it which only makes the situation worse. The dump fees would be substantial. It would take one person somewhat more than half an hour to shift it. We're talking hundreds of dollars, not dozens.

Another assumption to correct is this has nothing to do with a property sale so no S&P is involved. The landlord has changed, that simple.

Thanks for your feedback so far.

xris

[Glen]

Over time a small mound turns into huge problem. Imagine seven years of cuttings in a corner that I had to deal with before Christmas.
xris

???? I still can't see where you're coming from xris?

Why has it taken 7 years for someone to determine that it's a problem?

.......unless you've 'inheritated' this problem in some way or another, and can't be clear of the whole situation?

[xris]

???? I still can't see where you're coming from xris?

Why has it taken 7 years for someone to determine that it's a problem?

.......unless you've 'inheritated' this problem in some way or another, and can't be clear of the whole situation?

Hello Glen,

In trying to fish you are detracking from the point of my thread. This situation must arise from time to time where one tenancy agreement is affected by more than one landlord. Does everything said by the first landlord die when that landlord leaves?*

xris

* As I was writing the answer leapt out at me. Drelly is correct I believe and the new landlord is stuck. Anyone care to comment why they think this is correct, or perhaps not correct?

[Glen]

Sorry xris, I'm actually pissing myself laughing now,....cause I still can't work out what the hell you're talking about!
Laughing at myself really,........maybe i'm just too thick to get the point...Dunno!?

[cube]

The tenants then say that there was a compost heap there when they moved in two years earlier

Is there a statutory time after the start of a tenancy in which the new tenant can say - please fix this problem. If they don't do that, then it becomes their problem.

The usual example would be a broken power point or stain on the carpet un-noticed on first inspection?

If "The tenancy agreement has a clause in it about no compost heaps.", then surely it was up to the tenant to insist on it's removal on day 1?

cube

[Keys]

I am after some opinions here on a slightly unusal situation.

A new landlord takes over and sees a very large compost heap in the back garden during the first inspection and says that it needs to be removed and serves notice on the tenants. The tenancy agreement has a clause in it about no compost heaps.

Says it all really.

The tenants say that they will call the first landlord as a witness if the matter reaches the tribunal.

Nice bluff.

Any ideas about what to do and where all parties stand on this one?

xris

In my opinion, the written TA takes precident over the verbal agreement.

You've chatted, now come to an agreement. Failing that, contact the previous LL to confirm, the story.

As a result of that either:


a) issue a ten day notice.

b) remove it yourself.

c) suck it up if they're good tenants otherwise.

[xris]

Thanks cube and keys.

My thoughts are this.

First that the TT would judge caseslike this on a case by case basis. If a nice family turned up pleading poverty and a promise from an earlier LL and swearing blind that there was some sort of pile there when they moved in, then I feel the new LL is in a difficult position.

However, on the RTA by the book angle I think this.

A landlord is defined in many ways. The old LL is just as much a LL for this tenancy as the new LL, so if the old LL said they were not bothered about the pile and the tenants can show this then the new LL may be stuck.


But in favour of the new LL is that the pile is now outrageously high and all or nearly all of it has been created since this tenancy started. That is not in doubt. Also, I agree with keys that the written TA is very strong and clear evidence in favour of the new LL.

In summary I also agree that the tenants are trying it on because they now realise how much it will cost to get rid of the pile. I believe this is where the new LL must stand their ground and not allow themselves to be conned into paying to get rid of this pile, in part or in full. By admitting in any way that there may have been a pile there before the new LL is making things unnecessarily difficult.

And of course there is the balancing off of this issue and the quality, or otherwise, of these tenants. Come down hard and slap notice on them to rectify or spend time and money agreeing to a compromise?

xris

[Win K]

When we take over a property from another landlord we attempt to get the tenant to sign one of our tenancy agreements. Thereby the issue is covered by our new agreement.

The problem then arises (which has arisen) where the tenant says no don't have to sign new one. At which stage yr stuck.
We would tend to clean up the problem, wear the cost & then ensure tenants keep to the "new" standard.

[xris]

When we take over a property from another landlord we attempt to get the tenant to sign one of our tenancy agreements. Thereby the issue is covered by our new agreement.

The problem then arises (which has arisen) where the tenant says no don't have to sign new one. At which stage yr stuck.

We would tend to clean up the problem, wear the cost & then ensure tenants keep to the "new" standard

.

Yes, this is a good point and one that reminds me of a S&P agreement where is it much better always to ask for vacant possession even if you want to keep the existing tenants. You start with a clean slate and all the problems stay with the vendor/previous landlord.

On your second point I am fast beginning to go off this idea. I can see the cost being at least a fortnight's rent to get rid of the pile. There are other niggling issues with this tenancy as well and the idea of not giving an inch is starting to appeal. I can see a number of small expenses arising that will add up to a lot if the landlord keeps giving way.

xris

[Win K]

There are other niggling issues with this tenancy as well and the idea of not giving an inch is starting to appeal. I can see a number of small expenses arising that will add up to a lot if the landlord keeps giving way.

xris

Agreed - letting the tenant dictate the terms of the tenancy is definitely not the way to go.

We had situation - Psyco tenant giving LL hard time, she passed property to us. He would not sign our TA.
We went in resolute, eventually got tenant to move on after not giving an inch. He attempted to take owner & us to tribunal - after an hr & half of presenting his "evidence" was told to basically wind his head in.