Tribunal orders are on line

[Keys]

The good news for this is the flow on effect that will occur. The more a centralized system becomes public for tenants the better they will behave.

Problem tenants will start finding it hard to rent property shortly and this could put pressure on a small few to behave. The threat of a public mark against there name that would follow them for a long time.

I think that I will point out this resource landlords have to potential tenants on my application form.

Maybe, just maybe, they will realise what WILL happen should the TT make a judgment against them.

[xris]

I agree that this will rapidly become a standard free reference point for landlords checking on tenant applicants. I do not think though that it will have much affect on the dregs of tenants who will continue chancing it to find a gullable landlord, fewer of them though there may be with this new TT orders online service.

I am worried though that some landlords may not know how to use the system properly and blacklist anyone who is on a TT order. I have had several tenants against whom I have TT orders but I would not class them as bad tenants. In most cases a combination of circumstances had led to their having a TT order against them. Also, there are many bad landlords who know the system well and take advantage of that system and their tenants' naivity to get TT orders against othertwise acceptable tenants.

xris

[Glenn]

I agree that this will rapidly become a standard free reference point for landlords checking on tenant applicants. I do not think though that it will have much affect on the dregs of tenants who will continue chancing it to find a gullable landlord, fewer of them though there may be with this new TT orders online service.

I am worried though that some landlords may not know how to use the system properly and blacklist anyone who is on a TT order. I have had several tenants against whom I have TT orders but I would not class them as bad tenants. In most cases a combination of circumstances had led to their having a TT order against them. Also, there are many bad landlords who know the system well and take advantage of that system and their tenants' naivity to get TT orders against othertwise acceptable tenants.

xris

I disagree.
If the tenants are reasonable then you would have done the deed in mediation and got a sealing.
The mediated sealed orders are not on the web site.
There are however a significant number of rotten payers who get evicted that have these sealed orders against them. Other landlords will not be able to pick up much on them. So this web site is limited in its usefulness.
I find the most useful issue is that we can see what sort of orders are being granted for other landlords.

[Win K]

We had our first bounce on a tenant application yesterday from using the online Orders.
He came across very nice, came up with couple of refs, which on paper looked good but were from a couple of years ago.
But was pushing to be in asap, checked the name against the website to find damages/arrears from this year.

When he rang to ask when he could move in raised the issue with him ... "yes thank you we have received yr refs, I understand that there had been a tribunal order against you?" Very polite and non-judgemental - well Houston we have ignition!

He let rip about privacy & going behind his back etc.

Needless to say we still have an available property.

[xris]

We had our first bounce on a tenant application yesterday from using the online Orders.
He came across very nice, came up with couple of refs, which on paper looked good but were from a couple of years ago.
But was pushing to be in asap, checked the name against the website to find damages/arrears from this year.

When he rang to ask when he could move in raised the issue with him ... "yes thank you we have received yr refs, I understand that there had been a tribunal order against you?" Very polite and non-judgemental - well Houston we have ignition!

He let rip about privacy & going behind his back etc.

Needless to say we still have an available property.

Yes decided a while ago to be careful about anything I say to applicants who want feed back. I have had my share of being verbally abused and it is not pleasant. Wink, I would not have mentioned the TT order, would just have said something very bland like 'we are still considering offers and will let you know if you are successful'.

However, as mentioned before, this is a good example of just how important these online TT orders are becoming. I have received a TT decision quite recently on a claim. Pleasant guy and so on but an order is now against him, even if it is less than claimed. This is far more damaging to him than the relatively small amount of money he has to pay. In the past I would probably not have bothered publicising this order because personally I regard it more as just one of those things rather than purposeful dishonest intent by the tenant but now I have no say in the matter.

I have also mentioned before that for this reason I will try to look at each TT order that is published and decide myself what had happened rather than dismiss anyone who has their name on the new website.

xris

[Glenn]

Oh come on you guys learn to toughen up.

When I have a bad payer show up on a credit check I just tell them that if they do not pay their bills I do not want them.
In the last week I have declined enquiries from four ex tenants who left their tenancies in a bad state. All were told to look for a place in a town that is reported to be very hot. wink wink.

Must admit I have been down loading all of the recent cases and oops here is one for a relatively new tenant (like three months) that has just gone on line.
Lots of rubbish and damage at here HNZ property. $3500 claim against her.
As mentioned it was 3 months and due for an inspection.
We found all relatively clean and tidy with no accumulated rubbish.
So it looks as if I will need to keep a close eye on her.

[Win K]

Had no issues at all explaining our rational to him. I wanted to give him the opportunity to raise anything from "his side". From his reaction got the character check we needed to make our decision.

If you've had issues in the past why should we take you on. One of the things we're very clear with on current tenants who start to dick us around is NZ is a very small place & you start to get a poor history your decision is going to become which bridge shall I sleep under.

[Keys]

I've made it sticky, so it won't get lost!

Thanks for that cube.

Now, has anyone noticed that the web site goes down occassionally?

I wonder, would it be interesting to have a running commentry on how many times this site is unreachable?

After all, no good being online if the page is constantly down is it?

The site is down right now.

[xris]

Are you on there keys?

xris

[Keys]

Are you on there keys?

xris

Where? Where?

(looks frantically around)

TT Website?

Not running from here in Christchurch.

[Glenn]

When in tribunal I have been told more than once that the court staff are not finding the site / system very easy for them to use either.
The Principle tenancy adjudicator who was sitting that day indicated with a series of facial expressions what she thought of the wonderful new system that kept falling over.
At least we have something in common now with a common enemy.

[jporteous]

What are the key tips you picked up?

I disagree.
So this web site is limited in its usefulness.
I find the most useful issue is that we can see what sort of orders are being granted for other landlords.

Hi Glenn

What would be some of the key tips / orders that you have picked up on??

I have followed one of your earlier suggestions and have downloaded the Housing NZ orders for my area - chch. I was interested to see that they were claiming some pretty hefty costs re cleaning & rubbish removal/gardening. For example Adamson (1/2/07) had $570.09 cleaning & $842.96 Rubbish/Garden. Anderson (13/6/07) had $370.49 cleaning, $1159.25 Rubbish, & $1504.73 Carpet Removal & Repairs etc

Thanks Jon

[Glenn]

Yes I noticed that HNZ was getting costs for weed spraying at every property. I generally would do that but just charge the owner so that goes on regardless now. With so many genuine claims being knocked back all the time I can see the court are simply not interested in landlords making reasonable claims.
The issue is to make claims that can be reasonably supported not claims that are reasonable.
So with the likes of light bulbs you do not claim for bulbs that have burnt out you claim for bulbs that are missing.
For rubbish you always claim for the tip fee, vehicle running and trailer hire.
After all your trailer costs you something to own and maintain.
You have to be more and more clever re claims on carpet.
I am now saying that the RTA says that landlords must supply a house reasonably clean and tidy to new tenants. So I point out if the carpet did not meet that standard not the standard that the tenant thought it was ok to vacuum it that being a reasonable effort.
And so the list goes on.
The important thing is to be aware of what sort of claims people are getting away with and go for the jack pot.

[Green Fish]

I've often thought that the whole system could be improved if the bond procedure was refined. The problem with TT proceedings is that you spend all of that time and effort, when there's only two weeks rent sitting in the kitty.

Let's assume that an applicant has a $10,000 bond lodged in the RT Trust Acc. They go right to the top of my list. (I accept that the existing legislation appears to provide for this, but no-one does it.)

[jporteous]

The problem with TT proceedings is that you spend all of that time and effort, when there's only two weeks rent sitting in the kitty.

Hi

At our Property Investors last year a Tenancy Services mediator suggested we ask for one week in advance + three weeks bond. Best thing we ever did.

Jon