Yawn. Where's all the talk about property gone?

[Monid]

I guess it is a matter of evolution.

I suspect on a pound for pound basis there probably are just as many newbies signing up and asking questions. It is just harder to tell, because there is so much more going on as well. It is a perception issue I think as much as an actual change. Certainly some topics always seem to create disagreement, just look at this thread from very early in PT's history: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/sh...ht=richmastery

I think it is still reasonably safe for newbies (Although Newbies I would love to hear from you on that regard, give us a shout out) you are more likely to get hassled if you are an old and grizzled member of the forum like you or me. But I can understand that the perception of safety has changed. And I agree that is a pity.

Cheers
David

[poormastery]

Reap what you sow vs Massive action?

Hi Ivanhoe,

I have been mulling over your posting since you wrote it. I suspect you are obliquely criticising the humble poormastery for judging people.

This led me to looking at the Bible, to see what the Christian view was on judging others.

In the “The Sermon on the Mount”, Jesus famously said “judge not, lest ye be judged."

Is this a warning against hypocrisy, or is this a statement implying that we should never judge anybody and never take action?

I suppose we would need to look at Jesus’ actions to understand which interpretation is more likely.

One of the most important Bible stories was about Jesus and the money changers. This action probably led directly to the execution of Jesus, so the importance of this passage should not be underestimated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_Money_Changers

“According to the synoptics, Jesus targeted specifically the money changers and the dove sellers and justifies his actions by quoting from the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Jeremiah:

My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.—Isaiah 56:7
and

But you have made it a den of thieves—Jeremiah 7:11

The reference to den of thieves may be a reference to inflated pricing or more sinister forms of using a religious cult to exploit the poor.”

Of course, Jesus famously entered the temple and created a whip from some cords, and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and over turned all the tables of the money changers, scattering their coins of the ground.

It seems to me that Jesus was indeed judging the money changers, but that he was not hypocritical in his judgement or his actions. Jesus cared for the poor, and saw the money changers ripping off these people, and he responded by taking massive action himself. He did not rely on the money changers one day “reaping what they sowed” – he took direct and personal action, which unfortunately partially resulted in his eventual execution.

I wonder if Jesus would do something similar if he was with us today?

Would he enter the spruikers temple – those that use a religious cult to exploit the poor – and over turn their tables and cast them out?

I would like to believe that he would…

Regards,
*poormastery*

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Interesting poormastery but a load of old cobblers I'm afraid. Jesus was crucified because that was the plan for Him coming to earth. A sinless offering to allow us to be restored to God.
And to call this one of the most important Bible stories is bizarre to say the least :-).
Jesus immaculate conception, virgin birth, crucifixion and bodily resurrection are the most important parts of the Bible, not to mention the 605 prophecies in the old testament that Jesus fulfilled by the 4 points above. Without them we are all condemned to hell.

[Ivanhoe]

*poormastery*
I'm reading Richard Bach's "Illusions" at the moment.
Which gives an interesting angle for me to savor these posts at (through?)
Even taken into account that i read quite a bit about Jesus (range would include stuff like above mentioned "Illusions", Carlos Castaneda and Stuart Wilde) yet don't feel myself qualified enough to comment.
May I ask you this though (that's regarding my innocent post that gave you so much food for thought): Have you EVER been in a conversation that was not a broken phone game? Have you ever read a book that was not about you?
Another thought to ponder: would you associate Hitler with everyone who calls him/herself German? Are they guilty by association?
And let me ask you this:

Jesus cared for the poor

Come on! Did he really? You must be kidding! I think he cared more for the rich as they had issues with needle eyes poor people did not have...

and saw the money changers ripping off these people

Assumtion. I understand how sweet it sounds: "and saw the money changers ripping off these people" - are you saying Jesus would be trashing some banks and travelex office was he walking this plane again? I don't think that was the point that prompted him to take "massive action". As unqualified as I am I think it's more about him being slightly upset about commercializing spiritual premises.

and he responded by taking massive action himself.

what can I say...

"Why is it that everything I say is wrong?"
"Is everything you say wrong ?" he said.
"I think I'm in the wrong business."
"You think maybe real estate?" he said.
"Real estate or insurance. "
"There's a future in real estate, if you want one. "
"OK, I'm sorry " I said "I don't want a future. Or a past. I'd just as soon become a nice old Master of the World of Illusion. Looks like maybe in another week ?"
"Well, Richard, I hope not that long!" I looked at him carefully, but he wasn't smiling.

Richard Bach, Illusions, chapter 8.

[deliveryman]

sorry pm.....

.....but ad philosphem aint no different to ad hominem. your posts are no longer on my "must read" list, and yes that is a direct criticism of pm.....

[Monid]

Just on the activity front, I would note that there has been 124 posts and 12 new threads started in the last 24 hours. 3 of which have been started by newbies. So I think the PT = Scary position is perhaps a bit over stated. Still I think in general keeping things a bit more civil would make it more pleasant for everyone involved.

Cheers
David

[poormastery]

mmm...A Conspiracy Theory

Good post, Monid.

I am beginning to wonder about some of these recent criticisms about PT content. Before some posters believed alleged “negative thinking” by a couple of posters would kill us all; now apparently "scaring newbies" is the new plague that threatens to destroy everything and everyone.

Certainly, in terms of newbies, there is one “educator” that allegedly specialises in fleecing these people. I can't help wondering if someone might have something to lose from an open forum?

I wonder if these “it’s all going to the dogs” accusations reflect the fact that certain unnamed people are not happy about the content here, for reasons other than their stated concern about the welfare of newbies?

I am sure that there are some that are genuinely concerned with newbies' welfare - but I wonder if this issue is real, or if these posters are the victims of some clever propaganda...

Just a thought…

Keep your wits about you!

Regards,
*poormastery*

[Keys]

Certainly, in terms of newbies, there is one “educator” that allegedly specialises in fleecing these people. I can't help wondering if someone might have something to lose from an open forum?

.................................................. ../////////////////////................

Keep your wits about you!

Regards,
*poormastery*

With the market turning is it possible that those willing to sign and risk much in anticipation of capital gains are waiting?

If that premise is true then the flocking to seminars is cooling.

Following that train of thought gives rise to the consequencial drop in income for those who hold seminars.

And ..... ..... .....

Those who hold seminars may not (now) be able to continue with their stratagy in property investment. (overcommitted??)

How many of those seminar "guru's" have seen property downturns?

Total speculation, of course.



Keys

[poormastery]

Conspiracy continued...

Hi Keys,

You appear to have read my mind.

What to do, if you were them? I suppose as a seminar operator you could look for alternative income streams.

You could, for example, start to market a pyramid style fruit juice selling. And/or you could effectively switch to becoming a real estate agency, selling overpriced off plan apartments to your gullible newbie "students".

Of course, if you were busy hawking this rubbish to newbies, the last thing you would want is a pesky free and independent website warning the aforementioned newbies, would you? Perhaps you would have to come up with some propaganda line as to why the site which was free and independent was crap?

For example, you could say that it was "negative". Or you could say that the site is no use for newbies, perhaps?

Do not underestimate these people...

Regards,
*poormastery*

[poormastery]

Reply

Hi pooomba,

I think the most important parts of the Bible are the words of Jesus.

Hi Ivanhoe,

You have a lot of questions, and they are all very interesting to me. I will have a go at this one (poormastery would never stop typing if I had a go at all of them!):

Another thought to ponder: would you associate Hitler with everyone who calls him/herself German? Are they guilty by association?

This is an interesting point to me, because I lived on and off in Germany for a quite awhile, and I have many German friends. I think the Germans are generally a fantastic people. I like their food, their culture and I am even trying to learn their language (with little progress).

But I must confess that I have pondered long and hard about how Herr Hitler and Nazism happened to them. Upon reflection, my conclusion was that it could have happened anywhere, given certain conditions.

Herr Hitler was a dangerous narcissist, but one charismatic man does not a totalitarian state make. The economic conditions must also be right to encourage enough people to join the narcissist. There must be a band of nasty collaborators. Most of all, there must be a silent majority who don’t want to get involved.

So I tell you this. If you spot one of these extreme narcissistic types, you have found someone who is potentially very dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people
4. requires excessive admiration
5. strong sense of entitlement
6. takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her
9. arrogant affect.

I believe that for the good of society, these people must be resisted at all costs.

Regards,
*poormastery*

[SuperDad]

Interesting Fact?

The last person to make reference to narcissism on this site was David Hows.

Paul.

[poormastery]

Hi SuperDad,

For the record, this is not true.

The last person to mention narcissism was the humble poormastery, who watched pooomba's video blog on the subject. I mentioned on these forums that it was good (about a week ago).

Regards,
*poormastery*

[Dean@Massiveaction]

The "watch out for one particular educator" sentiment has always been here on PT. What has changed significantly however since I first joined is that people who identify themselves as new often get jumped on from a great height for asking a question. This was never the case in 05 and 06 when I joined.

[ream]

A newbie's view

I think it is still reasonably safe for newbies (Although Newbies I would love to hear from you on that regard, give us a shout out) you are more likely to get hassled if you are an old and grizzled member of the forum like you or me. But I can understand that the perception of safety has changed.
David

Well as a newbie I'll stick my neck out here and say that I've spent a fair bit of time on PT over the last few months without saying much. I haven't got (anywhere near all the way) through the list of recommended posts but I suspect there is some great information there.

However as far as I can see (and this is a personal interpretation based on not a lot of time reading over the last few weeks) most new posts seem to fall into one of 3 categories:
1. Newbies asking questions and getting more or less help depending on the state of the moon, what somebody had for breakfast or some other unknown quantity.
2. Additions to certain very large and often heated threads, often repeats of a few people's well-known opinions on the same topics over & over.
3. Pointers to newspaper articles.

Personally to get serious advice I'm now moving to the MA forum. Not really to avoid hassling but because it sounds like a more on-topic and helpful arena than this with top notch advisors and no time-wasters. That's not to say that there aren't respected investors on this forum, but I can't afford to waste time at the moment reading vitriolics and philosophy and it's too easy to get sucked into reading them here.

Just one newbie's view.

Ream

[Monid]

The "watch out for one particular educator" sentiment has always been here on PT. What has changed significantly however since I first joined is that people who identify themselves as new often get jumped on from a great height for asking a question. This was never the case in 05 and 06 when I joined.

Unless Orion answered first, and they dared to mention negative gearing or going interest only then he would plummet on them from a great height! No disrespect but Orion did have a rough edge along with his knowledge.

Cheers
David