Yawn. Where's all the talk about property gone?

[Gerrard]

People - I take a few sick days and what do I come back to? Infighting, petty arguments, slagging, and bugger all talk about property.

I'm horrified at the amount of time my fellow moderators have had to put in to deal with all this crap, and what a waste of time it is for people reading the forums in search of something useful.

PropertyTalk is free and independent so anyone can share their opinions no matter what those opinions are. Debates are great, and yes they will get heated sometimes. But instead of slinging mud at each other, how about we put forward facts and constructive arguments and even agree to disagree sometimes.

Believe it or not, it's not the job of moderators to keep PT clean. It is the responsibility of everyone who contributes here.

So how about you take responsibility for yourself and stop wasting everyone's time?

As as user of this website you are agreeing to abide by the website policies. Please do so!

Gerrard

[cube]

I agree Gerrard.

Shall we start a poll on who should be given a 'leave of absence' for a while to let the true value of PT shine through?

[Monid]

I'll third the plea for some self moderation. And some basic civility and willingness to respect that people disagree.

I think Peter put it well here:

In my view the real issue is ugly, insulting behaviour and language, as I've posted elsewhere. Mild insults and put-downs (mea culpa, occasionally, sure. PM or call me if I ever hurt your feelings - seriously) can quickly turn ugly when someone gets stung. If they react badly (names withheld to protect the guilty) the boards can turn septic pretty quick.

Physician heal thyself... I say, "Poster, moderate thyself."

The moderators (blessings be upon them them) should be a LAST resort, not a continuous filter, in my opinion.

I thought I should say one more thing, if you are a newbie to PT who wants to ask a question but is put off by the current acrimoniousness of some discussions and posters, please note the newbie forum: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=32

If you post there then people should play nice.

Cheers
David

[whitt]

OK what about introducing a carding system or de-merit points.

If a user breaches a rule they get a warning/ yellow card, continued breach's incur points or a the Red card. Automatic suspension for a period of time depending on severity of rule broken.

Harsh yes. But in reality isn't this what we do in society already with most things. In various forms it is used on our own children too.

If 20% of users create 80% of the moderation why not get things real and align the forums with society. In the end the ultimate responsibility will be the user.

[Keys]

Is it possible????

People - I take a few sick days and what do I come back to? Infighting, petty arguments, slagging, and bugger all talk about property.

Gerrard

That the market has slowed down?

That there are less "good deals" available to be had?

That the stress being felt by those who are overextended is showing in their posts?

That those here who have never seen a downturn or stagnation are becoming worried?

That those who purchased "off the plans" are now facing bankrupcy?

That, far from being helpful, those who have been around for several cycles are acting haughtily?

That this forum may be reflecting the property market as a whole.

Just a few thoughts. Take them or leave them.


Keys

[BusyLizzy]

Good point Keys. I have no idea whether it's true or not, but it could be. And if this is the case, you think people would be posting to question and promote debate on how to best handle their situations. Not kick each other's dogs while they are all down...

[Cliffy]

Is it possible?

That a lot of the people who still want to talk property have gone off to private forums away from the personal attacks and petty point scoring?

I know there seems to be more activity in the Massive Action forum than the main PT one.

[Gerrard]

That the market has slowed down?

That there are less "good deals" available to be had?

That the stress being felt by those who are overextended is showing in their posts?

That those here who have never seen a downturn or stagnation are becoming worried?

That those who purchased "off the plans" are now facing bankrupcy?

That, far from being helpful, those who have been around for several cycles are acting haughtily?

That this forum may be reflecting the property market as a whole.

Good call Keys!

[Ivanhoe]

Massive Action forum has been around for 6 months.
During these 6 months there were no single insulting post or comment or need for moderation.
SAme applies to GBI's forum too (hosted by PT as well)
Call it groupthink or whatever you like.

[poormastery]

What Does It All Mean?

I have virtually never seen any disputes on the Richmastery forum either (except perhaps when Monid or Superdad posted there!).

Regards,
*poormastery*

[Ivanhoe]

poormastery, it's not about disputes - it's what peter refers above as "self-moderation" which has nothing to do with being PC but everything with being nice and kind to each other (just for a change)
PS: I remember long time ago you used to call propertytalk "forA" - has it become less or more of fora since you started posting?
PPS: i see you now use fora when refering to RM forum...
PPPS: http://dict.die.net/fora/ - notice #2

[poormastery]

Reply

Hi Ivanhoe, to directly answer your questions:

PS: I remember long time ago you used to call propertytalk "forA" - has it become less or more of fora since you started posting?

Of course, poormastery has only been here 3 months, so I can’t really say anything meaningful about these forums before this time.

In terms of my own posts, judging from PM’s I have received and posts replying to me here, I would say that some people like my posts, whilst others absolutely hate them. We can only do our best?

Finally, on the meaning of fora, it means exactly the same thing as forums.

Regards,
*poormastery*

ps. "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." [Edmund Burke?]

[Monid]

Massive Action forum has been around for 6 months.
During these 6 months there were no single insulting post or comment or need for moderation.
SAme applies to GBI's forum too (hosted by PT as well)
Call it groupthink or whatever you like.

Ivan, I think there is a simplier explanation than groupthink... I can see from Dean's advertising he now has over 200 members in his forum nicely done Dean! However 200 self selecting people is a very small number in a forum, major forums like PT and Somersoft and others have over 5000 members. Obviously the dynamics are going to be different. I've not encountered a major forum yet where there isn't some argy bargy it is par for the course especially with people who are newly arrived to the forum because they haven't become inculcated in the forum's norms.

Look at stage 3 of Marc's post here: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=10920

Sound familiar?

To get the benefits of the wide range of experience and expertise available on a public forum you have to put up with a certain amount of disagreement, this is true of Somersoft, Propertytalk and all the rest.

While I do share Gerrard's desire for less argy bargy I think that actually there is a lot of relevant property focused discussion going on on PT right now, it is just easy to get caught up in argy bargy and only notice that.

I certainly agree with Peter's request for people to self moderate, take 5 minutes to think before you hit the post button, do you really want to say that? I'd add another request, don't just complain about the absence of property focused posts... Take action (even massive action if you wish) and make some.

Cheers
David

[Monid]

For comparison purposes have a look at these two current threads on somersoft:

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33690

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33687

I think we are comparatively civilised (and note those threads have been heavily moderated and toned down...)
Cheers
David

[Dean@Massiveaction]

I think you're quite right David. PT is not a "specialised" forum like mine has become, and that's great. I guess one of the problems however is that when I first found PT it was considered, rightly so, a "great place to learn about property", a "fantastic resource for property investment". It was certainly marketed and "word of mouthed" that way. We had a large number of new investors, or would be investors, joining and posting regularly.
Sadly that has slowed down, if not just about stopped completely because this is no longer a "safe" or "friendly" space, especially for those who are new and not very good with words. I think that's sad. It's great fo rteh Massive Action forum because that is a safe place and it's members comment on that fact frequently. But I think it's a pity that PT is no longer what it built it's initial reputation on.