non-occupying tenancy agreement and flatmates

[John the builder]

Can a tenancy agreement be between a LL and non occupying tenant who then sublets to flatmates and accepts responsibility for rent etc (no bonds and no written agreements are anticipated)?

If TS get involved is their jurisdiction only between the LL and the tenant (named on the agreement) ?


Thanks in anticipation

[RollingCloud]

When I was a tenant and had a flatmate who wasnt named on the tenancy agreement, I was advised that I am responsible for them, that any damage etc, by them was put on me. When I left my flatmate then had to enter into an agreement with the ll. Non occupying tenant? I would be getting the one other/others on the agreement if you can. Who knows what TS would think of that.

[Perry]

Sounds like what you describe is a sub-letting arrangement / agency thing from the start.

I.e. you are leasing to someone who is letting to others?

Why?

[John the builder]

the owner doesnt want tenancy issues with multiple tenants or be the LL subject to Tenancy services jurisdiction from occupants.

He trusts the head tenant who lives near but not resident at the property in question. Does he have to be?

[Perry]

I really don't know. I suspect that the 'head tenant,' being non-resident, would be perceived (and treated) by the TT as the LL.

[Keys]

Standard HNZ terms. It is totally acceptable.

[sidinz]

I really don't know. I suspect that the 'head tenant,' being non-resident, would be perceived (and treated) by the TT as the LL.

I agree. There have been a few TT findings recently that found a tenant who actually lived onsite, to be a LL, when things went sour and the flatmate in a sleepout took them to TT.
It's far less of a long bow to find a non-resident 'flatmate' to actually be a LL.

[FJW]

A tenancy agreement can be verbally binding if there are is no formal agreement in place.

It doesn't matter if the tenant moves out and sublets as they are still legally the tenant so are responsible for the tenancy.

Do you have a no subletting clause in your agreement?

[John the builder]

the issue is in regard to avoiding TS scrutiny for as house sharing arrangement

Can TS interfere in a tenancy where occupants are flatmates? They are trying to and annoying the flatmates who dont want private info shared.n

[mrsaneperson]

Can a tenancy agreement be between a LL and non occupying tenant who then sublets to flatmates and accepts responsibility for rent etc (no bonds and no written agreements are anticipated)?

If TS get involved is their jurisdiction only between the LL and the tenant (named on the agreement) ?


Thanks in anticipation

I had a situation like this up until very recently. I had 5 rooms let out in the one property , i assigned one person as head tenant then when each new person came in they signed the flatmate sharing agreement that was an agreement with the head tenant that they were his flatmate and thereby did not come under the RTA. The head tenant has to live at the property. This arrangement worked well for me for around 12 years then the head tenant got himself a girlfriend he wanted to move in with and gave me notice , so after that i turned it back into a standard tenancy. The key is finding a good head tenant that is trustworthy and reliable. The flatmate sharing arrangement form can be found online , if you cant find it PM me.

If the head tenant does not live at the property then you cant have a flatmate shared arrangement and instead each room rented out would need to come under the RTA.

The problem with the RTA is it does not recognize the complexity of shared living arrangements that is why it does not work well for these types of situations.

[John the builder]

thanks

where does it say head tenant has to live at property.?

There is an allowance for non occupying tenants in social housing why not other tenancy arrangements?

[mrsaneperson]

thanks

where does it say head tenant has to live at property.?

There is an allowance for non occupying tenants in social housing why not other tenancy arrangements?

The word tenant implies the person is living at the property. Initially i was going to use myself as a head tenant but i was not living at the property so this was not viable.

[John the builder]

tenant is defined under RTA as a "grantee of a tenancy" which is in turn a ""right to occupy" it doesnt say you are occupant?

s5 (s) allows specifically for non-occupation by tenant

[mrsaneperson]

Possibly you could argue that the one problem you may have is one of the "flatmates" decides they come under the RTA. This is actually what happened to me, when one problematic flatmate I served a 2 week notice on took me to the RTA and argued he wasn't a flatmate since i didn't reside on the premises ,so instead i tried to claim exclusion from the RTA based on one of the sections that says if "amenities" included in the rent form 20% or more then this excludes the accommodation from the RTA.
I included in the rent , power, water, phone, net, sky, and a once weekly cleaner which formed well over the 20% for exclusion from the RTA. I also presented signatories from each flatmate saying they did not want to be under the RTA as shared situations are problematic if they are. The TT arbitrator decided that power and water could not be deemed as amenities and should be classed as "out-goings" therefore when they were taken out of the rent my exclusionary basis was kaput.
To this day it seems nonsensical to me that she re-classed the amenities as outgoings .
So after that nightmare episode future flatmates were signed up to one head tenant who resided at the premises.

[John the builder]

but that rogue tenant could still do the same thing to the current head tenant?