Threads closed - Is something wrong with MG opinions?

[Rosco]

Hi all,

Just been looking through recent 'new posts' as I normally do, and noticed that two posts by Matt Gilligan have been shut down. To be honest I can't understand why.

1) Matt opened a discussion about Empower. Everything said seemed to be true and I think most would agree that it was a fair topic to discuss. So why has it been closed?

2) FREE GRA questions - Whats wrong with this thread? I'm a competitor and even I think it is great for Property talk and its members. Just a shame I didn't think of it first.

Matt Gilligan is a property tax and structuring expert, and being in the same industry I can confidently say that his advice is great and often perfect.

Isn't the whole idea of property talk for "experienced property investors and real experts to help other investors". So shouldn't we be encouraging someone like Matt who is actually an expert rather than sticking up for and protecting other business's who call themselves experts but it can't really be proven.

Ross

[Keys]

Hi all,

Just been looking through recent 'new posts' as I normally do, and noticed that two posts by Matt Gilligan have been shut down. To be honest I can't understand why.

There are several PM companies here.

Don't see their discussions being closed (mind you, neither do I see heat in the discussions).

[BusyLizzy]

Ross, we have had reported posts in this thread, and the discussion is getting a bit heated.

The mods are in the firing line for letting these type of posts continue; and then we are in the firing line for shutting them down. These threads have been shut down for the moment, while we review the reported posts and decide the best course of action. These things will take a bit of time.

There's nothing wrong with people raising questions about competitors (or anyone else for that matter) - but personal and/or threatening attacks will not be tolerated on PT. Things are getting out of hand on this thread.

It is not a case of 'sticking up for or protecting' anyone. It's a case of ensuring PT continues to be a forum where members and investors (new and experienced) can come for knowledge and information without the fear of being threatened or shot down when they post.

[Monid]

Hi Rosco
It is a temporary measure to cool things down.

The first thread (Matts Q&A thread) got derailed and we closed it to sort it out and remove the junk from it - when that has been done I would imagine it will be reopened since as you say it was a useful and helpful thread - I recommend you plagiarise the idea!

The second thread continued the junk from the first thread and ratcheted it up a notch - meaning lots of reported posts and a fair amount of rule breaking on all sides. To calm things down we have locked that thread as well.

David Hunter
PT Moderator

[whitt]

Yes I would like to see more various professionals give advice on PT and encouraged for doing so.

They can do so by answering questions and giving free advice here. They might even find it helps them get new customers. ( This is how Letfus started out building a following until he went to a private forum and dramatically cut postings here). Anyone who does make it big try not to forget about the PT little people. ( I suggest the same for All Blacks rugby too. They should look after the grass root juniors since that is where they started off themselves.)

Anyway back on topic. Professionals who participate on PT please try keep a high ratio of "Posts offering advice or answering help" vs "Posts of non-importance". If you stick to these basics then the members here would like to hear from you. Some businesses ( MG has outlined a couple) are tending to post more "non-importance" than "advice".

Do we need a new forum rule to give mods discretion where it is obvious the ratio of useful posts is getting one sided from professionals?

[Xav]

I think that rule be hard on the mods Whitt. You get enough flack at present for enforcing the current rules which have less room for moderators personal opinions. I would hate to see your "jobs" (not that they are paid) getting any harder.

It may also disuade professionals from "outing" themselves, which would reduce the amount of reputable advice being given.

Thank you for temporarily closing the other threads. It may well be a discussion that needs to be had, but the way it was rapidly heading I don't think it was going to be terribly useful without some input from the mods.

[whitt]

people whom attack others including the writer, cross threading vicious rumor and innuendo, cumulatively profiling their competitors as as vagabonds and demons

Isn't this the sort of actions which you are discouraging and initially complained about? The irony is wouldn't making comments in a negative fashion back against your competitors only makes the situation worse.

Everyone play fair.

[Matt Gilligan]

Isn't this the sort of actions which you are discouraging and initially complained about? The irony is wouldn't making comments in a negative fashion back against your competitors only makes the situation worse.

Everyone play fair.

Sorry Whitt but the culture of this place needs to change in my opinon from a place of derision and bun throwing to a place of informed debate. Its a public forum and telling untruths and fabricating nonsense about your competitiors has no place in the public forum.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

This is how Letfus started out building a following until he went to a private forum and dramatically cut postings here

Just for the record Hamilton :-) the ONLY reason I started a private forum was because of the personal attacks on myself and others at the time making it impossible to use this forum to discuss property related matters without defamatory and petty behaviour from a few trouble makers.

Deja Vu.

[WGN ex-property manager]

There does seem to be a Grand Tradition here on PT that the Educators regularly sling mud at each other.

RM sling at Empower sling at Massive Action.

I used to watch with a slightly sick sense of futility mixed with amusement as a thread would slide from useful to facile.

Having said that, I always was impressed that Dean managed to conduct himself with some sense of dignity no matter what people threw at him. Kudos.

As for Matt G, well I've always viewed him as a very capable tax and structures specialist, and continue to refer our property finding clients to GRA when they require structures advice. I can't see why he's be seem as a threat to market share of an educator, as he's not an educator himself (although when he is invited to present at seminars I've attended he's always spoken well).

Just my 2c.

Robin

[Monid]

Yeah Robin I agree and unfortunately even those who are often well behaved - such as Dean or Matt - end up slinging mud.

It is a shame that people who consider themselves professional educators (or professionals in other senses) can't conduct themselves more professionally!

Cheers
David

[Monkeyboy]

If you have mud to sling I would suggest going back to the RM thread. There noone complained about the mud slinging.

[Puff]

Has actually been quite refreshing Monkeyboy with the RM thing all rapt up. The slinging has stopped and people can actually talk property again on this site.
For a newbie to this site it must be more refreshing for them having people helping (or at least giving their opinion) rather than seeing educated people on this forum having a go at each other.
We all need/like to see new people come onto this forum, lets welcome them.
I also enjoy Matts and Deans comments along with a whole range of other regulars on this forum.
Have a great week all.

[Mark_B]

11 people have thus far posted on this thread (I am the 12th) - and 8 have hyperlinks in their sig.

That, to me, is one of the big problems with PT. It isn't enough for people that they simply post, they've got to drum up biz too. That's alot of egos competing for attention.]

(To be fair, I think Monid's links are PT related - but the others look like external sites)

[WBuffett]

11 people have thus far posted on this thread (I am the 12th) - and 8 have hyperlinks in their sig.

That, to me, is one of the big problems with PT. It isn't enough for people that they simply post, they've got to drum up biz too. That's alot of egos competing for attention.]

(To be fair, I think Monid's links are PT related - but the others look like external sites)

This I think says it all, they sling mud or sling mud back because they have something financially at stake to do so.