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Greetings to all...and advice on Jenmans?

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  • Greetings to all...and advice on Jenmans?

    I have just joined up with this forum after typing the word "Jenman" into the search box. I have just applied for a job with a company that use the "jenman" technique/theory/whatever it is........ and I was surprised to read some very negative comments but of course very interested to know why these comments are so negative? I haven't yet been asked to atttend an interview...and may well find I won't even get that far......but.....what is it all about? why is there such bad feeling? and is it successful?
    I cannot understand how real estate can be sold without advertising.....but of course am prepared to do what I have to do to be successful...particularly when the word 'ethical' has been bandied about....but I do hear the sneering in your voices when you quote that word....is it NOT ethical? Any information would be much appreciated.

  • #2

    Best of luck to you if you work for Jenman. I suggest you do several things as part of your due diligence:

    1/ Talk to all the agents that have left the Jenman system and find out why they left and how he treated them during their franchise term and after. Many have been persectuted and sued by him for franchises that have not worked.

    2/ Talk to your local Real Estate Institue, they are less than complimentary of his acidic techniques.

    3/ Read Jenmans web site cut through the self interested propoganda and see how much fact actually exists. If you get a microscope you can see it. He tends to use the only selective facts that support his cause.

    4/ Ask Mr Jenman how many fines he has had to pay for dishonesty and then search the internet to verify these for yourself.

    5/ Talk to the Melbourne Age reporter that wrote this article:

    She knows more than she prints. And read the other articles on the REIV web site. They show a different picture than the one Jenman pretends.

    6/ Search the posts on these sites and you will be better informed:

    Australia's largest property investing forum with over 100,000 members. Packed with property investing training, get your real estate questions answered.

    This is the Somersoft home page (Ian & Jan Somers). Jan Somers writes books on property investment. Ian Somers writes the PIA property investment analysis software.

    The facts speak for themselves and things are not what they seem when you start doing some digging under Mr Jenmans polished toxic veneer.

    Good Luck if you end up working for him, you will need it!


    • #3
      Thanks BillClinton....I really appreciate your comments and links....my husband said when the brochure came that "this is almost too good to be true" and I do admit to a certain level of scepticism myself....
      I doubt very much I would ever meet the man as the business that was advertising for staff is obviously a franchise. (He is Australian, yes? The business I am interested in is run in a small NZ city) The promises sound so secure....but for the life of me I cannot see how real estate can be successful when it apears the properties aren't marketed through advertising (????) ...How do they get clients? Foot traffic? Why would anyone selling their home allow someone to sell it who wasn't going to actively market it?.... I am prepared to give 'them' listening time (in the event they grant me an interview) but will remain very cautious about signing anything without checking it out first. My parents were both real estate agents, my father was particularly successful in his heydey. I always considered the risk of commission only income (as it was) was so risky....my mother had a less successful career when she started working during a property slump....so the promised salary was a big factor in perking my interest. I have yet to read a positive article online....this is scary stuff. Thanks again...I hope others write too.


      • #4
        Hi smee,

        I saw Mr J speak last year, and he made some very valid points about some of the more dodgy practices engaged in by SOME members of the real estate industry - and the term 'industry' encompasses agents, seminar presenters, vendors, purchasers, lawyers, finders - pretty much anyone whole buys, sells, rents or owns a house. I wonder where he lives!

        His aims are noble - a fair deal for all involved, but obviously his tactics can rub some people up the wrong way.

        As for adverstising - he feels that the job of a estate agent should be to find BUYERS - not sellers.

        He makes a valid point - where do you go when you want to buy a house (we're talking Joe Public here) - to a real estate agent.

        So, the agents have a 'constant' stream of willing buyers knocking on their door.

        Why, then, when you want to sell your house, do you have to 'fork out thousands of dollars' to attract those very same buyers?

        The obvious answer - because the agent doesn't know ALL the buyers in the market - is where the agent's work comes in - finding qualified buyers for your property.

        Open homes are used by agents to find more houses to sell (not to sell the one they are open homing (!)) (and, allegedly by less desirable elements to case the joint).

        Keep digging, get a list of searching questions to ask at your interview, and let us know how you get on!

        Good luck.



        • #5
          Thankyou Mr Presidant


          • #6
            I think Neil Jenman's greatest claim to fame is as a "consumer advocate". He is helping thereby to reduce the grip of the big franchises on the market. This will see more incompetent & dishonest salespeople exit the industry. The remainder will give more time to working for sellers & looking for buyers, instead of ther other way around.

            Having been through a few property cycles, my opinion is that greed is the dominant emotion during a boom, but gets a reality check during a recession.


            • #7
              Thanks again people for your varied comments. Cube most of what you say I go along with and feel a certain amount of relief about, but have yet to find out about the "forking out of thousands of dollars" bit.....not advertising sure would cut a lot of the real estate agents expenses.....does this mean selling this way the fees/commission is considerably less? Judging by the salary offered I thought they must have still been charging the sellers the same real estate agents fees as their advertising comrades/(foes?)......
              and to answer the question of where I would go if wanting to buy a property...my newspaper would be my first port of call....then real estate agents windows. I accept that they would weed out a lot of the time wasters and get onto the nitty gritty of REAL buyers....but figure an awful lot of business would still slip through the cracks and be picked up by others only too willing to sell property to the would be buyers that attend open homes or respond to advertisements.
              Then again...I haven't listened to their sales pitch yet....because it looks like they were not impressed with my returned questionnaire! ....no interview in the offing yet...I shall keep you informed. Thanks again for your responses. I very much appreciate it.


              • #8

                My opinion of Neil is 1st hand as I do know him and have spent some time with him (I am most likely catching up with him this week in Sydney).

                You must read his book "Don't sign anything" as that will give you some insight into why he has plenty of very aggressive opponents within the industry. He also has some opponents in NZ due to his attempts to expose 'dodgy' techniques used in the real estate industry.

                Smee, When someone makes loud criticism of others on this forum I always wonder about the motivation of the writer. Consider weighing up their comments in light of how long have they been contributing to this forum, how many posts have they made and about what topics. Have they actually contributed anything useful or merely used the forum for attacks or to support their own agenda?

                So it is interesting to view all of the posts BillClinton has made on this forum. You can see all of BillClintons 11 posts on this forum over the last 18 months at http://www.propertytalk.co.nz/forums...llClinton.html

                Read them and then make up your own mind.

                My motivation for supporting Neil is that I agree with many of his criticisms of the techniques employed by many in the real estate industry.
                His role as consumers advocate will always attract much criticism and often that criticism will be from the very people that he criticises.
                Kieran Trass


                • #9
                  Thanks Kieran. The one thing I like about forums such as these is the varied responses. Definitely I am the sort of person to make up my own mind about something......but also I like to listen to feedback and responses. When I typed the name "Jenman" into the search engine I was more than a little taken aback that the only comments I could find were negative. I do tend to view things from as many angles as I can so it made me perk up my ears. However I haven't really yet had any specific instances quoted as to why I shouldn't trust this method....just advice to not trust it. As I say, I have not even yet had a reply to my questionnaire but am looking forward to an interview where I can ask questions directly and get a feel for the people already working under this system. Certainly I intend keeping an open mind about it while at the same time treading a little cautiously till I am more sure of my ground. Sincerely appreciate all posts whether they be negative or positive...but especially from people working within the system or those that have some experience of it to qualify their claims. It will be a steep learning curve (should I get a response...) and the next few weeks/months promise to be very interesting and possibly a little scary. We are ready for the change and challenge Thanks again everyone.


                  • #10
                    I highly recommend you read his book Neil Jenman "Real Estate Mistakes"
                    I read it 2 years ago and it was worth the read. It outlined many of the techniques used in property sales and how to avoid them.


                    • #11
                      Many of us property investors wear two hats. When we are buying we use every method at our diposal to buy at the lowest possible price, but when we are selling we like to see buyers paying top dollar for our merchandise. In fact we think it unethical when they don't.

                      The buyer/seller relationship is always adversarial. When I first read Neil Jenman's book (which Neil gave me) I thought he brought up a few good points, but to suggest (as he does) that the auction never works in the seller's favour is twaddle. Often, particularly in a hot market, buyers at an auction will exceed their predetermined price and their own judgement of true value, as they get caught up in the excitement and hoopla of an auction - much like casino players who spend more than they know they should.

                      It could be argued that in such circumstances the buyer is getting shafted because he or she is paying too much. Integrity, one would think, should aim for the middle ground.

                      To insist that buyers submit the highest irrevocable price that they are willing to pay - to achieve the highest selling price - takes little account of the insanities of the house buying market. You might get three nervious buyers on a day who all submit low offers, or three exuberant buyers with their spouce's cheque book who are willing to go over-the-top with their bid.

                      Consumer advocates, like Jenman, do a good service by opening our minds to different perspectives, but though they start out with the best of intentions often they end up pushing their own barrow. As my dear old grandmother used to say to me, "The road to hell is paved with good intention."

                      However I take Kieren's point, especially about the motivation of the writer, particularly when discrimantary comments are writen under the cloak-of-secrecy that a pseudonym provides.

                      Gimme $20k. You will receive some well packaged generic advice that will put you on the road to riches beyond your wildest dreams ...yeah right!


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Julian
                        Often, particularly in a hot market, buyers at an auction will exceed their predetermined price and their own judgement of true value, as they get caught up in the excitement and hoopla of an auction - much like casino players who spend more than they know they should.
                        Very much agreed. I have seen people bid up to ridiculous price for properties that would be difficult to sell in flat market


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by smee
                          ....not advertising sure would cut a lot of the real estate agents expenses.....does this mean selling this way the fees/commission is considerably less?
                          But those costs of 'extra'marketing are (currently, for most agents in NZ), borne by the seller, not the agent - the agent will pay for a little poorly printed box in the local rag for 4 weeks, and that's about all.

                          Jenman's sellers contract, which he recommends sellers present to their listing agent, if only to see what reaction it causes, includes "All costs or marketing are to be included in the agent's commision"

                          Given that the agent is going to have to pay for any advertising, the idea of not actually having any advertising is strangely attractive - to the agent!



                          • #14
                            Heehee.....well it needn't be a problem for me. I didn't even score an interview......their loss (or so I like to think)....so back to plan A.....