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  • Are you trying to insult me?

    It appears that RE agent's training incudes couple of standart phrases they have to use in "negotiations"...
    1. "Come and see it during open home"
    2. "Put something on paper" (if you ask how negotiable vendor is)
    3. "All reasonable offers considered" - ask what would be "unreasonable" and have fun! (normally return to #2 - ask if they will sell for a dollar)
    and my all time favorite:
    3. Vendor has been insulted (offended) by your offer!
    Today I'm signing pre-fiiled (by me) offer on the roof of my car, agent asks if I need legal desription, name of the vendor etc - my reply: "Are you trying to insult me?"
    Hanging around RE salespeople too much I guess...
    Don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  • #2
    Hello Ivan,

    I really do enjoy reading your posts, both the ones that I can understand and the ones I cannot.


    "Come and see it during open home"
    What is wrong with this?

    Put something on paper" (if you ask how negotiable vendor is)
    And what is wrong with this? Why should the re agent weaken his/her client's position if there is absolutely no need to?

    (normally return to #2 - ask if they will sell for a dollar)
    Have you ever written up an offer for a dollar and seen what happens? Try it one day, it might be fun, even if only to take up ten minutes of your time. But then again, it may lead to some meaningful negotiation.


    Today I'm signing pre-fiiled (by me) offer on the roof of my car, agent asks if I need legal desription, name of the vendor etc - my reply: "Are you trying to insult me?"
    And what is wrong with this? Isn't the re agent just trying to help you? If you do not have those details any offer you write up isn't really an offer, so it should be returned to you so that you can go away and fill it in correctly before it can be considered.


    Hanging around RE salespeople too much I guess...
    I am sure there is some cryptic meaning to this but for the life of me I don't know what it is.

    xris

    PS/ Will you be entering? Primulas, poppies, petunias and pelargoniums - as we all know, in property investing there is always something new to learn and surprise us. There may even be a few pansies there.

    Comment


    • #3
      xris go and try to buy 10 good DEALS in next 30 days - you will see what I mean. I don't have time/energy/desire to explain myself any further.
      Happy hunting!
      Don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ivanhoe,

        Why is this in the forum funnies?

        (I'm not saying that this is not funny. Its just that I find myself laughing at you, not with you.)

        Paul.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey Ivan
          What about when the vendor comes back to you saying he's been insulted? I had this happen a couple of weeks back

          Comment


          • #6
            ivanhoe: wow i'm impressed if you can manage a deal every third day, let alone "good deals". in my heyday i was averageing a unit every three weeks, and that only lasted a year or two. do you have a big team behind you or are you doing this yourself? with RE agents i had a relativly small group that i dealt with, i found once they know how you work it made life easier but with the quantity you are buying i suppose you will be coming across new agents every day.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
              xris go and try to buy 10 good DEALS in next 30 days - you will see what I mean. I don't have time/energy/desire to explain myself any further.
              Happy hunting!

              Absolutely, Ivanhoe, one can learn all the theory about investing, but you only understand that type of humour if you are actually out there doing it every day.
              Keep it up mate, you are inspirational!!

              Tim

              Comment


              • #8
                Explaining jokes sux, eh?
                OK, i'll give it a go. If you are in a business you run it as a business. the msot valuable commodity is time, so when you are in the business of buying houses WELL (aka GOOD DEALS) you ask, ask, ask, ask... each "ask" should take absolute MINIMUM of your time, as you are screening thru suspects to get to the prospects (Ron Legrand). One the best ways is to make an offer at the level that works for you - that's why we do it in the computer using some clever tricks - see Dean's newsletter here:
                http://www.massiveaction.co.nz/display.php?item=276
                Also as you deal with agents who are trained (mainly half-trained) to deal with a "heart" buyer you have to "condition" them and explain the essence of your business. Which comes down to one thing really: "Look mate you are in a BUSINESS of selling houses, I'm in a BUSINESS of buying houses, can we handle it in a business-like way?" blink-blink OK, look, I'm a property trader, you know car dealers? - uh-huh, cool, they deal with second-hand cars, i deal with second-hand houses, OK?.......(another couple of minutes)....... cool, now we understand each other, see you there and i'll BRING an offer after doing my DD, checking title etc (takes 3 min, does not cost anything) (notice, not MAKE an offer, I'll BRING one) - so I show printed S&P agreement, show them clauses that I use, explain what they mean (just in case) while signing and initialling in all the proper places etc etc etc...
                So they never seen a duck, were NOT taught what duck is during their 6 day academy, but I say I'm a duck, I walk like a duck, I talk like a duck - do ducks need legal description if they said they will check the title and BRING an offer?
                Last edited by Ivanhoe; 29-11-2006, 12:02 PM.
                Don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

                Comment


                • #9
                  and as a side note:
                  agents are trained to do two things: get listings and squeeze $$$$ from home buyers. I understand their frustration when they "buy" the listing (asking price on the property in question was around 110% of the current market value and 115% of what the Registered Valuation would be), then they try to run a supermarket: they dream up a price (what its "worth") and EXPECT you to be a good boy and pay it without any fuzz (oh yes, you MAY ask for a $5,000 discount, but do you know you may miss out on this property?)
                  So buyers are supposed to:
                  1. Be emotional (come to an open home and fall in love)
                  2. Be reasonably stupid (not notice road widening on the title or think that major renovations SHOULD be called "in a need of some TLC")
                  3. NEED and WANT to buy this particular property badly (I saw an add "motivated buyers should apply" - What the....?????!!!!!!
                  4. Do what they are told, negotiate within predefined nego range, make offers above asking etc etc etc....
                  5. Agree with all clauses agents suggests and pay 10% deposit on acceptance.

                  And when some silly bargain hunter makes a low offer you:
                  1. Tell them they will not accept it (let decision makers amke decision, OK? - or walk, or prest to the vendor directly)
                  2. They can trash it and never present (add "cc: vendor's name, vendor's address" to your cover page - have fun!)
                  3. They can call them and tell some idiot offers $$$ you would not accept it would you? (work with YOUR agents, spend more time conditioning, buy privately)
                  4. When they will get back to you and say magic phrase they where taught to use in this situation: "my vendor has been insulted by your offer" ("you should die from the feelings of shame and guilt on the spot" - oh, dear, but why? Bacause it's low - ummmm, did you explain to them this, this and that? or even better "that's OK, my offer stands, let me know when they will change their mind"
                  Well, i understand them after all - first you "buy" the listing, then you have to lose the advantage of filling in an agreement (it's one of the MAIN negotiation stages) and now vendor spats on you because you did not sell it for 2 month (not even a single offer!) and where's our HIGH offer, where's our money you promised you will bring us?
                  I'm SO sorry about them and I'm trying to teach them what to say to make it easier - but you cannot "demagnetise" them and teach them how to do business with ducks during 5 minute conversation, can you?
                  Don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "Look mate you are in a BUSINESS of selling houses,
                    Really?

                    i deal with second-hand houses, OK?.......(another couple of minutes).......
                    When did you last by a leasehold property?

                    cool, now we understand each other
                    ,

                    At this point I agree that the agent probably does understand you.

                    see you there and i'll BRING an offer after doing my DD, checking title etc (takes 3 min, does not cost anything) (notice, not MAKE an offer, I'll BRING one) - so I show printed S&P agreement, show them clauses that I use, explain what they mean (just in case) while signing and initialling in all the proper places etc etc etc...
                    ???


                    I say I'm a duck, I walk like a duck, I talk like a duck
                    Ivan, does this mean you're a quack?

                    xris

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Be reasonably stupid (not notice road widening on the title)
                      ???


                      you cannot...teach them how to do business with ducks during 5 minute conversation, can you?
                      Difficult, I would agree. Perhaps if the agent dressed up in a chook's outfit and squawked it might help to find some common ground?

                      A suggestion Ivan - why don't you become a (lisensed) real estate agent? I think you'd probably be quite good at it.

                      xris

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Xris your are a very shrewd and witty person, envy your sense of humor!

                        A suggestion Ivan - why don't you become a (lisensed) real estate agent? I think you'd probably be quite good at it.
                        Funny thing that every time I talk to a branch manager or an owner (whatever you call them - principal?) they suggest it too.
                        Thanx xris, but please accept my polite yet firm "NO".
                        Two reasons: 1. I want to be in a business that is ETHICAL 2. My business is a better BUSINESS
                        Last edited by Ivanhoe; 29-11-2006, 02:27 PM.
                        Don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          BRING an offer after doing my DD, checking title etc (takes 3 min, does not cost anything

                          Hi Ivanhoe,

                          Would you tell me how you check your titles without having to pay for them.

                          Cheers

                          500million


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Ivan

                            What a fantastic thread, it has given me some thought. I have just started putting in offers and what you have written down here is 100% what I have been experiencing. I put this problem forward to some other investors last night and it does seem to be a bit of a sticky situation.

                            You have opened up my eyes to these EA and I need to start putting my foot down when it comes to presenting offers.

                            Cheers mate

                            Robin
                            To be great you must learn from those that are great.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              robin, i hope you realise that once you get a name around town for putting in low ball offers no real estate agents will want to deal with you, this is probably why ivanhoe seems to have such issues with agents, i used to pay asking price on most of my purchases but used clauses to my advantage,also i still cant see how someone can buy a property every three days and have time to look at a forum like this.

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