I suspect tenant has another person move-in but how to prove it?

[erinak]

The tenancy was approved for mum and 2 children. However, I now suspect that her "partner" has moved in but how to prove it within my rights that is legal? Any solid proven advice/experience will be grateful, received with much appreciation. Thank you.

[flyernzl]

Do you have a limit on the number of people who can reside in the tenancy written into the Tenancy Agreement?

[Keys]

Almost impossible to prove. Rent increase, termination. Both after a chat with the tenant.

[erinak]

Yes. Its the way and the how to actually prove that they have moved in within my rights. Thanks

[erinak]

Almost impossible to prove. Rent increase, termination. Both after a chat with the tenant.

Have done that. Tenant said the boyfriend was just there for the weekend. Without going inside the car was still outside this week.

[erinak]

Do you have a limit on the number of people who can reside in the tenancy written into the Tenancy Agreement?

Yes. I'm after the how and the way to prove it within my rights.

[SimonW]

Probably all you can do is stake out the property from the street and take photos of the boyfriend's vehicle - once at say 11pm and again at 6am the next morning, for a few days in a row. Of course, all that really proves is that his car is there I guess - unless you get video of them coming and going - either way it's a bit of a hard one.

The other option would be to check her letterbox on the pretext that your friend told you they addressed a wedding invitation to you at that address by mistake, so you are just looking for it - then look for any mail addressed to the boyfriend and take a photo of it. A bit dodgy perhaps but you could up the ante by actually mailing yourself a gift card to that address a few days afterward to make it look bona fide. Even tell her you're expecting a card which was sent to that address in error, so will be checking the letterbox for the next few days and you hope she doesn't mind...

The other option is to spring an inspection on them with the minimum required notice and hope you catch them out with men's shaving items etc in the bathroom, male clothes in the laundry etc.

Or fake an urgent unforeseen building maintenance issue (neighbour says there's water leaking out of the house etc) and then ask to gain entry while she is at work to check the problem.

[Wayne]

Is it really worth it?
If it really is a problem give them a 90day to leave notice (unless they are fixed term) and call it quits.
Otherwise you could ask that she put the partner in the TA - say you don't really mind him being there but want it all proper like.

[Keys]

On the flip side, I have a tenancy where one wants to move out and be removed from the agreement. There were two rent payments made this week and the one who is moving out wants their payment back again.

What would the forumites do in this instance? I have decided and instigated my answers to the tenants. Just interested.

[erinak]

Is it really worth it?
If it really is a problem give them a 90day to leave notice (unless they are fixed term) and call it quits.
Otherwise you could ask that she put the partner in the TA - say you don't really mind him being there but want it all proper like.

Yes, I agree Wayne, sorry Simon. It all sounds too convoluted and I'm afraid I'd trip over my tongue with the telling of it all!
Guess I was hoping for some tried-and-true experience of how it was resolved but its proving as difficult as I thought it might be. Bugger.

[artemis]

On the flip side, I have a tenancy where one wants to move out and be removed from the agreement. There were two rent payments made this week and the one who is moving out wants their payment back again.

What would the forumites do in this instance? I have decided and instigated my answers to the tenants. Just interested.

I would tell them that the tenancy is terminated by any tenant giving notice to leave. So 21 days notice kicks in and rent is payable until the end of tenancy. Then if I was happy with the remaining tenant I would discuss a new tenancy agreement.

[artemis]

Yes, I agree Wayne, sorry Simon. It all sounds too convoluted and I'm afraid I'd trip over my tongue with the telling of it all!
Guess I was hoping for some tried-and-true experience of how it was resolved but its proving as difficult as I thought it might be. Bugger.

If you don't want to give notice, suggest make it clear to the tenant your expectation about an extra person living in the house. Then wait and see what happens. If the tenant still says just visiting you can give 90 days later (or less if determined by the Tenancy Tribunal).

In practice the BF will eventually either move in or move right out.

I would keep up inspections though.

Not uncommon for beneficiaries to hide a live in partner for financial reasons. That would be fraud and you might not be keen on a tenant like that. I guess you could dob them in and they would be investigated.

[erinak]

If you don't want to give notice, suggest make it clear to the tenant your expectation about an extra person living in the house. Then wait and see what happens. If the tenant still says just visiting you can give 90 days later (or less if determined by the Tenancy Tribunal).

In practice the BF will eventually either move in or move right out.

I would keep up inspections though.

Not uncommon for beneficiaries to hide a live in partner for financial reasons. That would be fraud and you might not be keen on a tenant like that. I guess you could dob them in and they would be investigated.

Yes thank you! I too have been re-thinking my approach, given the small pickings so far and how to deal with it amicably. Real steep learning curve for taking on a beneficiary client here. Lesson I won't be repeating again. Problems abound but that's another story. Tenant is still paying off rental default so not keen to evict until repaid in 6 weeks and by then I had hoped this current bind would be resolved.

Its interesting too that you mention TT. Given this is something I've never struck before I need to check with them too I guess. And I struggle with the the poss of fraud so won't go there - given the consequences and whatever outcome as a result on tenants 2 children. And yes, I will be keeping up inspections here on within the allowable timeframe.

Thankyou for your helpful advice and please keep it coming!

[ATM]

This post makes me think. what about the increase of people because the people who live there have given birth to a new baby? If you have stated 4 people in the rental agreement, we now have 4 plus 1 cute baby. With long-term young couples, the natural increase of people that way will occur. I just wonder what would you do? change the number of people living in the house in the next year rental agreement?

[erinak]

This post makes me think. what about the increase of people because the people who live there have given birth to a new baby? If you have stated 4 people in the rental agreement, we now have 4 plus 1 cute baby. With long-term young couples, the natural increase of people that way will occur. I just wonder what would you do? change the number of people living in the house in the next year rental agreement?

Er, the proof is already there so no need to prove it!!! And that's not what my question is about at all.