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  • Bond Inspection

    A local PM has told my tenants they are not required to do any cleaning of the outside of the house, so they have left it with cobwebs, dirty windows, grubby balustrade, unswept porches. Can someone point me in the right direction of the RTA that tells me this please?

  • #2
    This is

    were it gets messy fluffyb all the tenant has to do is leave the property Reasonably Clean and Reasonably Tidy.
    I honestly think you like all of us have to suck it in, Pis**s you off really.

    If you PM me with your email address I will scan a ruling from the TT for you to read you will have a better understanding after reading it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I usually...

      ...give it a good spring clean between tenants anyway, but in the 15 years I have owned the property have not had anyone blatantly leaving it dirty like this. They've ignored a lot of the inside cleaning too, in spite of a clear check list I give all tenants. That word 'reasonable' errs on the side of the tenant doesn't it? They're happy to go in there all spik and span, and quick to complain if there's a light bulb not working..... Glad to see the back of these ones actually!
      Last edited by fluffyb; 18-04-2010, 08:54 PM. Reason: Spelling!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fluffyb View Post
        A local PM has told my tenants ........
        So this 'local PM' has nothing to do with your property though?

        Have you found out who the PM is, and told them to bugger off!!??
        Last edited by BusyLizzy; 23-04-2010, 09:58 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah...

          ..the PM found them for me last year, and has found the next tenants, but does not manage the property, and never has. Am really annoyed with them for sticking their beak in.. But are they strictly correct?

          Comment


          • #6
            From a recent Tenancy Tribunal decision (07/244/Hn):

            "14. Mould on the back of the curtains is an almost inevitable part of having a curtain as a barrier between the cold wet Waikato air and the warmth expected of residential accommodation.
            Double glazing might well eliminate a large part of that problem, although that is something the tenant is prevented from doing, being a major renovation. Nor do I accept ventilation would aid in this issue. The very purpose of drawing the drape is to conserve heat. It would
            defeat that purpose if the window were then left open to prevent the rear curtain lining getting damp. This problem is therefore only within the control of the landlord. I do not accept the curtain mould is due to any action or failure on the part of the tenant, and so find the cleaning
            of the curtains is not part of the tenant’s responsibilities.
            15. Similarly, the spider-webs on the outside of the house are a normal part of living in this country, and a problem house owners cope with either by spider-proofing the property or as part of their normal yearly maintenance. This is not the tenant’s obligation, as maintenance is part of a landlord’s obligations (see s 45(1)(b) RTA)."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by asdr View Post
              From a recent Tenancy Tribunal decision (07/244/Hn):

              "14. This problem is therefore only within the control of the landlord. I do not accept the curtain mould is due to any action or failure on the part of the tenant, and so find the cleaning
              of the curtains is not part of the tenant’s responsibilities.
              What a lot of BS!

              Does the tenant not have a brain!!??

              HHHMMMM (tenant thinking here,.....I know I know ....hard to imagine),...Lets see, I have mould occurring on my curtains,....should I air the room/house out as the people who own their older house would, and wipe down my sills and panes every morning. Hey,...Even maybe I could bring this problem to my LLs attention and we could maybe TALK about whether this is an issue for them, and if so then maybe we could find a resolution to this problem. Whether it be a heatpump, or insulation, or double glazing or I could get off my bum and stop blaming others, or even that I just suck it up and realise that I am renting a 'lower class' property at a lower rent ( which is all I can actually afford after paying for my smokes, booze, fines, child support, crap that I don't need/can't afford etc etc )and my expectations maybe shouldn't be as high as if I actually had got off my arse all those years ago, worked and saved, and now be able to afford my own place and live in absolute luxury????

              Originally posted by asdr View Post
              From a recent Tenancy Tribunal decision (07/244/Hn):
              15. Similarly, the spider-webs on the outside of the house are a normal part of living in this country, and a problem house owners cope with either by spider-proofing the property or as part of their normal yearly maintenance. This is not the tenant’s obligation, as maintenance is part of a landlord’s obligations (see s 45(1)(b) RTA)."
              Yes and no.

              LL could spider proof.....or not.
              I don't even do this on my own home.

              Tenant could show some intiative if they're that worried about it, and regulary hose down the outside of property ( wouldn't take much extra time away from hosing down their new $20,000 car purchased on HP, and after they've got home from collecting their benefit )

              Comment


              • #8
                9. What causes curtains to go mouldy?
                The warmth of the sun causes curtains to warm up and to act like a glass house with the result that any bacteria on the material will thrive in the warmth and humidity around the curtain. Moisture on the window does not cause the mould, although it will contribute to the humidity around the curtain when the sun heats it up.

                http://www.curtainclean.co.nz/faq.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Glen View Post
                  Tenant could show some intiative if they're that worried about it
                  This TT case was the PM trying (ineptly) to claim for cleaning of drapes and outside areas, among other things, not the tenant complaining about them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by asdr View Post
                    This TT case was the PM trying (ineptly) to claim for cleaning of drapes and outside areas, among other things, not the tenant complaining about them.
                    Further quote from the same case:
                    Originally posted by TT order 07/244/Hn

                    18. Mr Bateman acknowledged he had agreed to this term. Had this been a mediation, it would no doubt have been within the power of the parties to come to an arrangement over this issue.
                    This is not a mediation, that option having been declined by the applicant. Section 11 RTA makes any agreement to modify the operation of the Act of no effect, and any waiver by the tenant of their rights or power is of no effect. I have already established s40( 1)(e)(iii) requires a reasonably clean standard on exit.

                    19. That state cannot be determined in advance, and certainly not before the tenancy commences. A term of the agreement that requires the tenant to pay for carpet cleaning, regardless of the state of the carpet, is therefore a waiver of the tenant's right to only leave the property reasonably clean and is of no effect. It would also mis-state the law to the extent that it might be seen as an attempt to evade to provisions of the Act, a breach of s 137 and an unlawful act for which exemplary damages of up to $750.00 apply. It could also be a breach of the Fair Trading Act 1986, which provides for far more extensive penalties for misleading or deceptive conduct.

                    20. I would hope a reputable property management company would not indulge in such tactics, and instead interpret the contract in the manner that would find no breach as suggested earlier. Namely, that the landlord assumes responsibility for the carpet cleaning. I note that, had this not been the case, there was no evidence presented that would lead me to believe the carpet was not left in a reasonably clean and tidy condition. Nor would I have been in a position to make an order for an item not claimed in the application.
                    www.3888444.co.nz
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                    • #11
                      1. Pick good tenants (ie ones fussier than you are)

                      2. Hope they stay house proud as they move out

                      3. Accept that you'll have to pay to get the property cleaned from time to time

                      4. Accept that going to TT is always a loss to a certain degree (even if you "win" , you still lost time doing it, and only ever get what you would have got from a good tenant in the first place)

                      5. Have a maintenance budget with real money in it that you are actually happy to spend

                      6. Accept it all as a part of landlording. Your tenants are not you. They have different values, goals and world views. If there were all like you they'd all be property investors, not tenants, so you wouldn't have any customers, and there would be no houses left to buy.

                      7. Be thankful you live in a country with working roads, water and power, and that there is no civil war going on

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Glen View Post
                        What a lot of BS!

                        Does the tenant not have a brain!!??

                        HHHMMMM (tenant thinking here,.....I know I know ....hard to imagine),...Lets see, I have mould occurring on my curtains,....should I air the room/house out as the people who own their older house would, and wipe down my sills and panes every morning. Hey,...Even maybe I could bring this problem to my LLs attention and we could maybe TALK about whether this is an issue for them, and if so then maybe we could find a resolution to this problem. Whether it be a heatpump, or insulation, or double glazing or I could get off my bum and stop blaming others, or even that I just suck it up and realise that I am renting a 'lower class' property at a lower rent ( which is all I can actually afford after paying for my smokes, booze, fines, child support, crap that I don't need/can't afford etc etc )and my expectations maybe shouldn't be as high as if I actually had got off my arse all those years ago, worked and saved, and now be able to afford my own place and live in absolute luxury????



                        Yes and no.

                        LL could spider proof.....or not.
                        I don't even do this on my own home.

                        Tenant could show some intiative if they're that worried about it, and regulary hose down the outside of property ( wouldn't take much extra time away from hosing down their new $20,000 car purchased on HP, and after they've got home from collecting their benefit )
                        You sound like a whining LL, yes I have heard a lot of you lately. Never know, one of your kids may end up being, say, a TENANT one day, then you will have to suck it all in then, won't you.

                        Do you realise, that in order to purchase a modest two bedroom flat today in a city in NZ, you need a deposit of $100,000 plus an income of over about $60,000 per year?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by baiba View Post
                          You sound like a whining LL, yes I have heard a lot of you lately. Never know, one of your kids may end up being, say, a TENANT one day, then you will have to suck it all in then, won't you.

                          Do you realise, that in order to purchase a modest two bedroom flat today in a city in NZ, you need a deposit of $100,000 plus an income of over about $60,000 per year?
                          If you believe what you just typed then you need to open your eyes to the possibilities

                          http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-pr...-301046769.htm - In Nelson

                          http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-pr...-294543099.htm - In Hamilton

                          Expand your horizons - see how you could train for a better paid job and MOVE if you have to. Alot of us here started off thinking we couldn't have property - but we worked really hard and targeted what we wanted. Its up to you.
                          Last edited by rueben; 10-07-2010, 12:46 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by baiba View Post
                            Do you realise, that in order to purchase a modest two bedroom flat today in a city in NZ, you need a deposit of $100,000 plus an income of over about $60,000 per year?
                            What a load of BS! 20% deposit on a modest two bdrm unit in any NZ city, would not exceed $100K, where are you looking?
                            $100k deposit makes your modest flat purchase price $500k, hardly modest!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Troy |
                              Could you not state in the Tenancy Agreement that the place has to be clean to a certain degree of extra cleaning costs will be incurred?
                              This ahs been tried, and tested in court and failed. For example, a lot of landlords require write into their agreements that the carpet must be cleaned upon leaving - the court has found this to be unenforcable.

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