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Muriel Newman - NZ's Democratic Vacuum

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  • McDuck
    replied
    Originally posted by donna View Post
    There was no social distancing at our corner store - I experienced buyers reach out in front of me to grab stuff off the shelves.
    And if you hit 'em with a handy little electric cattle prod, to remind them, you're that bad guy. Go figure.

    Leave a comment:


  • donna
    replied
    I see John Key has come out saying we shouldn't be in any of the levels - that we should be trading as normal but with social distancing, hand washing etc.

    It does defy logic that you can stand in a queue within a metre of others for a takeaway yet your 'nutritious food' outlets can not even do what the corner diary is doing.

    There was no social distancing at our corner store - I experienced buyers reach out in front of me to grab stuff off the shelves. The aisles really allow for one but they're crowded a bit like traveling on AIR NZ. This one rule for some and another for everyone else and it's had it's day and needs to stop immediately.

    What makes it even more ironic is the Gov't owns a majority shareholding in Air NZ and that's going to increase to probably full ownership yet their plane embarking and disembarking is a shambles.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeffa
    replied
    Originally posted by donna View Post
    ^^ Agree - I think we'll be switching between 2,3, and 4 for some time.

    Not sure National would want to pick up the mess that will be our economy this election. They'd be wise to let Labour deal with it and then grab it next time around - probably with Luxon at the helm.

    cheers,

    Donna
    You may not get your wish, if Bridges is smart he needs to keep pushing his agenda, 25k haters on Facebook towards him do not represent the majority.
    Im picking come September the tide will have turned and the silent majority will head towards the voting booth ..perhaps without the facemasks.

    Leave a comment:


  • donna
    replied
    ^^ Agree - I think we'll be switching between 2,3, and 4 for some time.

    Not sure National would want to pick up the mess that will be our economy this election. They'd be wise to let Labour deal with it and then grab it next time around - probably with Luxon at the helm.

    cheers,

    Donna

    Leave a comment:


  • Learning
    replied
    Why do we need to risk a vaccine? Why not ask the families of elderly in Sweden, Spain, Italy, UK, etc, etc, etc.

    If any Kiwi wants to live free in NZ after the age of 65 then 90% of everyone else needs to be infected or vaccinated.

    Lockdown has been too successful. We didn't flatten the curve, we ablitterated it! And now we have the problem that not enough people have been exposed so once it gets back into the community it'll take off and we'll be back at square one.

    Leave a comment:


  • PC
    replied
    The vast majority of cases are asymptomatic in those under 65.
    Why would they need to take the risk of a vaccine?
    And why do they need their civil liberties stripped, their livelihoods destroyed and to be imprisoned?

    Leave a comment:


  • Learning
    replied
    The effectiveness of vaccines degrades with age but they still greatly improves their chances. We don't stick thousands of over 65s with free flu vaccines every year just for the fun of it.

    You can never protect every individual but you can protect enough. If the virus can't get a foothold it dies before causing an epidemic.

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  • PC
    replied
    Immunosenescence.

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  • Learning
    replied
    Why would you say a vaccine wouldn't protect the elderly?

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  • PC
    replied
    Vaccine won't protect the elderly.
    So what does incarcerating the 80% who barely get a sniffle achieve?

    Leave a comment:


  • Learning
    replied
    Originally posted by donna View Post
    Sweden's health system system has coped throughout and it's well over the peak - see the graph. Surely it's good for the world for some countries to have a different strategy?
    "Over the peak" maybe a little premature. According to https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/ they are still climbing the hill. The world is watching closely.

    Originally posted by donna View Post
    Also not all countries are reporting elderly care homes deaths in their totals - half of Sweden's death toll is elderly folk - here the percentage must be near 99% - if not 100%.
    At least 5 of our 18 deaths are unrelated to care homes.
    - A Westcoast woman was the first.
    - A man with the Otago wedding cluster.
    - A South Island woman in her 60's who's underlying condition was the medication she was taking for her arthritis
    - One who'd returned from overseas travel.
    - One from the Matamata pub cluster

    I agree that Cindy's reaction was over the top. She was preparing for a "worst case" scenerio. A guy who works in the MOH is part of our weekly gaming club and we were talking to him just before lockdown. He admitted that the modeling the government were using were unrealistic but the MOH had to present "The worst case" scenario as well as the best guess predictions. Even then they knew that Covid-19 was never going to be a "worst case" virus. But when reporting to a government you can never say never.

    Cindy's "tens of thousands dead" was a highly unlikely "worst case" scenario. Thousands, definitely. Ten thousand, possibly. Tens of thousands? More chance of being hit by an asteroid.

    Still, what's done is done. NZ is now one of the few island countries who could be completely Covid-19 free in a couple months. We then have to police our boarder tougher than North Korea to keep it that way. Until there's a vaccine that is.
    Last edited by Learning; 27-04-2020, 02:32 PM.

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  • donna
    replied
    Sweden's health system system has coped throughout and it's well over the peak - see the graph. Surely it's good for the world for some countries to have a different strategy?

    I also like how Sweden's response has not been politicised - it's been led by a down to earth Scientist who has also had 30 years in medicine.

    Also not all countries are reporting elderly care homes deaths in their totals - half of Sweden's death toll is elderly folk - here the percentage must be near 99% - if not 100%. What's interesting too as their decision to go down a different path has been popular with Swedes.

    cheers,

    Donna

    Leave a comment:


  • John the builder
    replied
    Perhaps we now have a fairly unique opportunity to market NZ as the safest place in the world to be for overseas students and older tourists from the northern hemisphere. For anyone who is willing to do the time and pay for 14 days in lockdown before beginning their holiday It seems the logical place to come. Why not make the quarantine experience 5 star providing top quality accommodation, views (Queenstown seems like the obvious place to come into) , food, and some kind of entertainment. If people came in a little bubble of 4 or 6 it wouldn’t be that onerous to be stuck with your friends for 2 weeks. Then they can travel the country in safety. That way we’d get wealthy, retired people with money to spend. Maybe target the former cruise ship Clientele. And students who are going to be here the whole year.
    H E
    you miss the point because of the lockdown we have not been exposed and are not developing the herd immunity we need. We are now in a more dangerous state than most, ironically because we have been too successful in stopping a controlled spread.

    check out what this professor says https://www.theblaze.com/steve-deace...id-19-shutdown

    Leave a comment:


  • hawkeye
    replied
    Really, I’m sorry but this is nonsense. The only reason we are in the position of having very low death rate and hospitals that aren’t overrun is because of the steps that have been taken. Just look at what’s happening in Sweden. It’s not like it’s a choice of health or the economy. Once the virus is widespread many people are too scared to go to shop Or go into crowds so businesses would suffer anyway. Tourism is dead in the whole world, not because of our government. Then there is the completely unacceptable risk to health workers that we see dying of the virus in the US, Uk, Italy etc. do we really want that here? At least now numbers are low and there is no community transmission it is our best chance to transition to a more normal state, though tourism won’t of course.

    Perhaps we now have a fairly unique opportunity to market NZ as the safest place in the world to be for overseas students and older tourists from the northern hemisphere. For anyone who is willing to do the time and pay for 14 days in lockdown before beginning their holiday It seems the logical place to come. Why not make the quarantine experience 5 star providing top quality accommodation, views (Queenstown seems like the obvious place to come into) , food, and some kind of entertainment. If people came in a little bubble of 4 or 6 it wouldn’t be that onerous to be stuck with your friends for 2 weeks. Then they can travel the country in safety. That way we’d get wealthy, retired people with money to spend. Maybe target the former cruise ship Clientele. And students who are going to be here the whole year.
    Last edited by hawkeye; 25-04-2020, 01:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • donna
    replied
    Too many people love being taken care of so unfortunately she's onto a winner.

    cheers,

    Donna
    Last edited by Perry; 25-04-2020, 09:22 AM. Reason: fixed typo

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