Sir Bob Jones - 'Saving is for fools'

[speights boy]

Well done ben, still a few more funds to go.

For some reason, I assumed when you made a statement about the relative performance of all kiwisaver funds, that you had done some prior research to back up that statement.

Tell me.
In that research
1. What was the best return (pa) over the last 5 years;
2. What type of fund was it;
3. Who was the provider? (only if you wish to disclose)

[Keys]

Old ben will drift off now SB. Those who make rash statements without backing it up tend to disappear when challenged.

[ben9465]

I have asked you a question twice now why can't you answer it ? I will not answer your questions till you have answered mine

[ben9465]

Seeing you cannot name it I will do it for you Milford Active Growth fund %11.6 return for 5 years Australasian equity fund ,finally found it , it does exist.

[kapitibeanman]

Well Keys, old ben's still here I see. heh heh
In general terms ben9465 has a good point. Sure, there are the stars that shine bright in the managed funds world, but also the ones that are so dim you never hear them advertise like Milford. Speightsy, what were the chances 5 years ago of picking Milford Active Growth? What is your pick for the next 5 years? If you say MAG you are most likely wrong of course. Bank deposits have a very viable place - if you invested long term a few years ago, you could still be getting well over 6% p.a. gross returns today. I think this is what ben9465 is talking about, and even if he may or may not be pulled up on a factual error, the gist of his argument is sound enough. As you must know, surely.

[Glenn]

I have just withdrawn my kiwi saver money out of Fisher high growth funds. Total payout was $15000.
Being self employed I was only permitted to put my own money in. I put in $100 per month for the whole time.
So for those of you who like to do little calculations tell me what rate of return that was.
I figured my existing passive income was more than I needed so why bother with silly little bits of money. Like thousands of other people I was after the Governments $1000.

[kapitibeanman]

I can hold my hand up for that. I am a slow learner. I lost a few hundred back when the market was going nuts in 85 then when I thought the dust had settled bought some more of his paper in about 89 and proceeded to lose $5000. Since then I have only played in the market with a share club doing strickly fun only investmets.

Ha Ha. Exactly what happened to me. I'm still smarting that I fell for it, and bought in again on what I thought were ridiculously low lows.
In his reports, Bob was quoting Shakespeare and explaining how wonderful it would be to be landlords to the Australians.
His subsequent actions back then amazed many admirers, but commenting adversely about them could be legally expensive.

[Keys]

I have asked you a question twice now why can't you answer it ? I will not answer your questions till you have answered mine

The dummy popped out rather quickly.

Over there >>>>>

By the toys.

[speights boy]

Sure KBM, I knew what point ben was making.
And, yes I agree there are funds out there that make very poor returns.
The ones were there is no active management, but the manager just collects their fee is what is being talked about I guess.
However, there are a number where value is added and the fee is earned for that expertise.

Disregarding all that, if someone opened a KiwiSaver account 5 years ago, nominated a cash fund and just invested $1,043 pa they have had a sterling return courtesy of the taxpayer. (slightly off subject I know)

With my own selfish investing hat on, I don't mind people spreading scary sharemarket stories because it no doubt scares many people off....hence I am competing with fewer buyers out there.
This is because I invest directly.

But from a general 'financial literacy' and general savings point of view, I think it does us all a big disservice to make such all encompassing statements re K'Saver which are obviously not true.

Different investments will suit different people and age groups.
There is no one size fits all.
Often it is simply what % you allocate to which asset group which is important, plus how often you review that allocation.

PS: good onya ben for sticking with the search.

[ben9465]

The average return across Kiwi saver fund types over the different fund types is 3.8% which is probably what I read in a paper article a while back and what I based My initial comments on. This is not the average total return but on styles of different funds. The average Total return will be slightly higher. The largest funds types seem to average around 5%. The milford fund represents only 0.7% of kiwi saver funds and is in a sector of far lower average returns the Ausralasian share sector.

[kapitibeanman]

Speightsy, What you say ^^^ about asset group allocation sounds right to me.
If you're in the wrong asset class, no amount of active management is going
to overcome that. For the same reason, being in cash or better still a
"conservative" fund over the last 5 or 6 years hasn't been a bad place to be,
and certainly would have helped you to sleep nights.

[speights boy]

^^
You could well be about right there Ben, I haven't had a close look.

I am reasonably sure (not 100% though), that calculated and published returns do not include Govt contributions.
(Yes Perry; we all know it's taxpayer funded....)
They probably also don't include the effect - to the investor - of employer contributions.

So if you invest $100 per month as per Glenn's example it will have a large effect on your payout which is not reflected in the published annual returns.

[ben9465]

Yes Good point, I recommended my wife do Kiwi saver because of the employer top up and now trying to tell her to move to milford . She is not a risk taker however and wants to stay with the tower default fund.

[NovInvestor]

It was an interesting read...... but I wonder what would happen if every one in the world borrowed and didn't save?

Japan's goverment will default on their loans and their economy will collapse. I read somewhere that 80% of Japan's borrowings per year is bought by their own people in the form of bonds... which the money come from their savings.

[PC]

How can you default when you can print the stuff?
They don't even print it now a days - just type in another zero or two on the 'Puter.