Sir Bob Jones - 'Saving is for fools'

[Glenn]

I thought he owned three dairy farms.
Perhaps I should do a companies register and terranet search for English and Wheeler.
I have done that for a few property commentating journalists. They normally own nothing. Journalists that is.
Any one bothered to try on our two public giants.

[kapitibeanman]

Bob said a little more than just the simple bank account savings stuff was nuts.
He mentioned the retirement saving via insurance companies and the such was a con.

Much the same could be said for investing in Robert Jones Investments. Certainly did not turn out to
be an enriching experience for most punters. One or two did ok though. Does anyone remember
the golden words pouring off Bob's pen in his annual reports. Before it went titsup that is.
Be careful what you say. Lawyers are hovering, as Chris Lee found out recently.
Truth is, everything's a con.

[ben9465]

Saving is a habit for rich people too. Just because I have $2.5m invested in property and $700k of debt and my revolving credit mortgage is allways there means I have in theory no savings. However I constantly live like I was trying to save.

If I buy meat at the supermarket it is normally the special this allows me to save a bit even though my bank has no 'no savings' but debt. Its obvious you don't save all your life but invest it later in a house. But what we the privileged few rich need to understand is 50% of the population or more are not rich, and need to adopt a savings ethos . It means you don't spend every last dollar, it means you try to save and save a deposit for a house and own a place and stop making fat cats like myself and possibly many others on this site rich by renting for life off people like us.

I have the up most respect for Bob Jones and his knowledge and have personally found his clear thinking in columns and books of tremendous personal value. I agree that retirement plans, bank deposits and shares do not often reward the holder but a savings ethos is what people who are to pay there way in society and be prosperous need. The poor 50% need to know that to get somewhere you can't live off a credit card. If you want a tv you SAVE for it.

Thank you Government for trying to get people to save. Sorry Bob Jones I don't agree with you on this occasion.

[Davo36]

I faithfully paid into the Government super scheme for 27 years. I had a life time job.
The deal was the Govt was supposed to pay into the fund $2 for every dollor I put in. Too bad the crooks did not pay what we together agreed on. Then they made me redundant at 45. They gave me back what I had put in plus about what I would have earnt if I had put the money into the Post Office savings bank. My family could have used that money when the kids were babies.

I have an American friend who worked for a big American company for years. He and his wife (whom he met there) paid into a 401k account with that company i.e. a portion of their earnings was invested for their retirement.

Unfortunately the fund managers decided to invest in tech stocks. And so they lost the lot in the 2000 crash.

[speights boy]

Unfortunately the fund managers decided to invest in tech stocks. And so they lost the lot in the 2000 crash.

That is why I really can't understand just how apathetic some kiwisaver investors are.
Some have no idea who their provider is, let alone what fund they are in.
At least the default option is a conservative one for those who don't seem to care where their money is invested.

Anyone who enters any investment where they give absolute discretion to another party, without the option of moving those funds elsewhere, is taking a risk that should be understood.

[Glenn]

Much the same could be said for investing in Robert Jones Investments. Certainly did not turn out to
be an enriching experience for most punters. One or two did ok though. Does anyone remember
the golden words pouring off Bob's pen in his annual reports. Before it went titsup that is.
Be careful what you say. Lawyers are hovering, as Chris Lee found out recently.
Truth is, everything's a con.

I can hold my hand up for that. I am a slow learner. I lost a few hundred back when the market was going nuts in 85 then when I thought the dust had settled bought some more of his paper in about 89 and proceeded to lose $5000. Since then I have only played in the market with a share club doing strickly fun only investmets.

[ben9465]

The Key thing with any investment is no one will look after your money as carefully as you would your self. In the case of shares ask Why do people list their companies ? To make more money for themselves that's why, occasionally shareholders do very well but more often than not they don't. If you sell a business privately the Price to earnings ratio is generally 1:3 to 1:4 That means a profit return to the buyer of 33% to 25%. A new listing on the share market is often in the 1:8 to 1:15 range so a 13% to 6% return for the buyers or 'investors' buying the shares . You get a lot more for a business selling it as a listed company. You then also get to pay yourself a huge salary. All kiwi saver funds are outperformed by a simple bank deposit. It is great for fund management businesses making lots of money in fees for earning investors less than a bank deposit.

[speights boy]

All kiwi saver funds are outperformed by a simple bank deposit. It is great for fund management businesses making lots of money in fees for earning investors less than a bank deposit.

So, 12.6% pa since inception after fees can be bettered by a bank deposit?
Is that your position?

[ben9465]

Which kiwisaver fund earns that

[speights boy]

Well ol' chap...if you knew anything about ALL kiwisaver funds as you claim; you would already know who the top performer is out there.
I know, and it took me all of 30 seconds to find their results table.

That's why I know you are full of it.

[ben9465]

Well why can't you name which fund.

[speights boy]

I don't spruik particular investments.
It ain't difficult to find.
Mr google will assist you.

[BigRedDog]

My kiwisaver certainly outperforms some piddly bank deposits and that is not taking into account the tax credit etc

[ben9465]

I'm looking but cant find as yet. If you are informing people of a kiwi fund that makes such a return I am sure it would not be considered spruiking to name it or is it the only place that it exists is in your imagination.

[ben9465]

I'm looking at a graph of gareth morgan kiwisaver of returns since inception. Heres the link http://www.gmi.co.nz/kiwisaver/performance-returns.aspx It shows a 2.1% pa return average since inception , not very impressive at all