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Beaumont Quarter Leaseholders - Sucking On Lemons

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  • Beano
    replied
    Originally posted by flyernzl View Post
    No idea.
    It was out in Hillsborough, Auckland. At that time the Harbour Board owned substantial land in that area.
    Do you own any lessors interest where you receive rental from leasehold property ?

    Leave a comment:


  • flyernzl
    replied
    No idea.
    It was out in Hillsborough, Auckland. At that time the Harbour Board owned substantial land in that area.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beano
    replied
    Originally posted by flyernzl View Post
    In my view there has always been a problem with freeholding leasehold land.

    There are two value components of any piece of land - the ownership of the land and the occupation of it. If you own and live on the land then you own both components. If you own the land but allow the occupation of it by someone else for payment, then you own the land and they own the occupation of it. If the value of the occupation is $x then your ownership value is the total value less $x.

    Many years ago I was looking at buying a Hillsborough property that was leasehold (the freehold owner was the Auckland Harbour Board). I was only interested in the deal if I could freehold the lease. They said that they would sell me the land at valuation. I then discovered that the valuation would be the total value (both ownership and occupation). Effectively I would be paying the current owner of the lease for the occupation rights that he currently owned and then paying the Harbour Board for those rights a second time.
    I could not get anyone else to see that this was not realisitic.

    Needless to say, I walked away from the deal.
    Do you know if the land was eventually sold ?

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet
    replied
    No more ground rent for owners

    4:00 AM Wednesday Mar 10, 2010 Land at one of New Zealand's largest high-density housing estates has been converted from leasehold to freehold title.
    Beaumont Partners, directed by Auckland developer Nigel McKenna, has sold land at the 258-unit Beaumont Quarter estate opposite Victoria Park.
    The property featured after annual ground rent fees rose from $900,000 to $3.1 million. So the townhouse owners and a business have completed the legal process of buying the large plot.
    Companies Office records show vendor Beaumont Partners is owned by many parties including Beaumont Trustee Company, Bayley Corporation of 4 Viaduct Harbour Ave, Martyn Reesby of Remuera's 118 Victoria Ave and Augusta Funds Management of 35 Chancery St.
    Beaumont will not get any more ground rent.
    Townhouse owners in the 2.2ha on the fringes of central Auckland said the days of paying leasehold ground rent fees were over.
    Neville Corbett, chairman of Beaumont Quarter Residents Society, said all the units and carparks now had individual freehold titles.
    But Corbett said not every unit owner had bought the land.
    "A majority of the owners have taken up their own freehold titles with the balance of the freehold titles being with Innovus (Beaumont). The remaining leasehold owners have a one-year period to either purchase their freehold title from Innovus, sell on the freehold market without having to fund the freehold with the purchaser settling directly with Innovus, or remain as a leasehold owner." Ulf Behncke, the on-site complex manager, would carry on with the campaign to improve the common areas of the complex, Corbett said.
    "You can assist by keeping your courtyards and decks in a clean and tidy condition," he told residents.
    Apartments in the quarter were selling at low prices, a problem real estate agents blamed on big ground rent payments which made renting units an uneconomic option for investors.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10630963

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  • muppet
    replied
    Adjourned hearing: IRD applies to wind up 15 Melview companies
    Defendant: Beaumont Quarter Management Services Ltd, Galway Hotel Management (Wellington) Ltd, Lighter Quay 123 Ltd, Melview Beach Road Ltd, Melview Beaumont Quarter Ltd, Melview Developments Ltd, Melview Halsey Ltd, Melview Holdings Ltd, Melview Log Farm Ltd, Melview McArthur Ridge Ltd, Melview Quadrant Management Ltd, Melview Unitower Ltd, Peninsula Road Ltd, Strand Management Services Ltd & Telpher Street Investments Ltd
    Directors:Nigel McKenna, Viaduct
    Applicant:Inland Revenue
    Adjournment date:Friday 19 March at 10.45am
    Other details: Counsel for the companies, Rob Hucker, sought a one-month adjournment. The applications have yet to be advertised. Mr McKenna’s Melview Waterloo Quadrant Ltd settled an application to wind it up in full a week ago and an application to wind up Melview Viaduct Harbour Ltdwas adjourned to Friday 12 March for settlement. Liquidators were appointed to Melview Featherston Street Ltd on 24 November 2009, followed by receivers on 27 November. 2 Kawarau Falls Station companies are in receivership. Other McKenna companies include233-245 Wakefield Street Ltd, Beaumont Partners Ltd, Chapel Ltd (incorporated August 2009), Domain Construction Ltd, Fernley Investments Ltd, Galway Auckland Property Services Ltd (incorporated in April 2009), Galway Hotel Management Ltd, Galway Property Services Ltd, McKenna Singapore Projects Trust Management Ltd, Phoenix Projects Ltd, Promanco Kenman (Auckland) Ltd & related companies, Shiraz Properties Ltd & Watermark Developments Ltd.
    http://www.propbd.co.nz/afa.asp?idWe...&SID=946050316

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  • Austrokiwi
    replied
    Good to hear good news but what amazes me is that people bought apartments with out a share of the land title in the first place!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet
    replied
    Beaumont land to be sold in $47m deal

    4:00 AM Wednesday Nov 18, 2009
    The Beaumont Quarter apartment complex sits on land divided into nine leasehold titles. Photo / Supplied


    Land under Auckland's 258-unit Beaumont Quarter apartment complex is about to be sold for about $47 million.
    The buyer is Innovus (Beaumont) whose directors are ex-McConnell International Property managing director Richard Stilwell, sharebroker Craig Greenwood and Shannon Walsh of Clearmont Capital Group.
    Innovus has a deal to buy the land from Beaumont Partner's Nigel McKenna, who developed the complex opposite Victoria Park.
    Apartment owners will then be able to buy the land under their unit from Innovus in a deal expected to fetch slightly over $50 million.
    Each owner will have the chance to freehold their land for an average $190,000 each although prices vary according to plot sizes.
    Neville Corbett, Beaumont Quarter Residents Society chairman, told residents about the Innovus deal and said they had achieved what many other leasehold owners thought was impossible.
    Corbett wrote to apartment owners telling them of the sale although he could give no prices.
    "Innovus (Beaumont) has advised that they have declared their purchase of the ground leases from Beaumont Partners unconditional with settlement scheduled for December and are now proceeding down the legal and technical path with the Auckland City Council and Land Information New Zealand to get the consents required to convert the nine existing Beaumont Quarter leasehold titles to individual freehold titles.
    "This means that you will be able to complete the purchase of your individual freehold title or change to an individual leasehold title with the option to freehold within a 12-month period.
    "Who would have thought 18 months ago when we learned of the massive ground rent increase that Beaumont Partners Ltd proposed to put upon on us, that we would now be in this position?
    "We will now be the envy of all other Auckland residential leasehold owners," he said, flagging big issues at Quay Park and Parnell when vast areas of Ngati Whatua leasehold land comes off long-term rent holidays in 2011.
    Corbett said he and fellow residents Denis Leong, Dean and Penny Fraser, Hamish McPherson, Alice McLeod, Tony Brown and Alison Jones had worked on the deal.
    Corbett also thanked the estate's complex manager, Ulf Behncke, who he said did everything possible to get contact details for the chairpersons of the various body corporates.
    He also contacted owners who live overseas and people who were hard to find.
    "All the Beaumont Quarter people involved in the freeholding process certainly made my job a successful one," he said, thanking the legal team, John Carter and Linda Yee.
    "My congratulations and thanks to us all for firmly grasping and approving the unique opportunity that was put before us.
    "May the Beaumont Quarter now settle into the period of peace and prosperity that we all deserve," Corbett said.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/news/print...ectid=10609880

    Leave a comment:


  • flyernzl
    replied
    Originally posted by muppet View Post
    The site valued at about $50 million is owned by Beaumont Partners.
    If the $50 million price holds, owners could have to pay more than $190,000 each.
    "It's a very tidy asset because ground lessor interests have been widely sought after," Mr Whillans said.
    ." The property is under contract to a buyer and their interest is in freeholding it. It is always difficult to get 258 owners of the individual units to co-ordinate themselves to putting in a bid. Someone is buying it to enable the owners to freehold it."
    If the owners got their land, it could set a precedent, paving the way for other leasehold sites to be freeholded, he said.
    In my view there has always been a problem with freeholding leasehold land.

    There are two value components of any piece of land - the ownership of the land and the occupation of it. If you own and live on the land then you own both components. If you own the land but allow the occupation of it by someone else for payment, then you own the land and they own the occupation of it. If the value of the occupation is $x then your ownership value is the total value less $x.

    Many years ago I was looking at buying a Hillsborough property that was leasehold (the freehold owner was the Auckland Harbour Board). I was only interested in the deal if I could freehold the lease. They said that they would sell me the land at valuation. I then discovered that the valuation would be the total value (both ownership and occupation). Effectively I would be paying the current owner of the lease for the occupation rights that he currently owned and then paying the Harbour Board for those rights a second time.
    I could not get anyone else to see that this was not realisitic.

    Needless to say, I walked away from the deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet
    replied
    Townhouse residents bid to buy their land

    4:00AM Monday Sep 28, 2009
    By Anne Gibson Residents of one of New Zealand's largest high-density housing estates are negotiating to buy their land.
    Townhouse owners in the 2.2ha 258-unit Beaumont Quarter estate opposite Victoria Park on the fringes of central Auckland want to freehold the site.
    They bought their homes on leasehold plots and are paying $3.1 million annual ground rent.
    Bruce Whillans, the national director of institutional investment properties for CB Richard Ellis, has run a campaign to sell the land and received 11 tenders which have been narrowed down to three bids.
    The site valued at about $50 million is owned by Beaumont Partners.
    If the $50 million price holds, owners could have to pay more than $190,000 each.
    "It's a very tidy asset because ground lessor interests have been widely sought after," Mr Whillans said.
    ." The property is under contract to a buyer and their interest is in freeholding it. It is always difficult to get 258 owners of the individual units to co-ordinate themselves to putting in a bid. Someone is buying it to enable the owners to freehold it."
    If the owners got their land, it could set a precedent, paving the way for other leasehold sites to be freeholded, he said.
    Beaumont Quarter Residents Society chairman Neville Corbett said no deals had yet been signed.
    Conditional arrangements were still under discussion and all subject to confidentiality agreements.
    "It's early days," he said. "There's a procedure going through at the moment."
    Other residents said a newsletter just issued to Beaumont property owners gave information on the prospect of freeholding the site.
    The cost of this would not be much more than the full annual ground rent, the resident claimed.
    Mr Corbett said this was "rubbish" but refused to say what price was being put on the deal.
    Nigel McKenna, of the Melview group of companies, developed the big Beaumont Quarter but kept the ground at the old gasworks site.
    A ground-rent increase from $900,000 a year to a proposed annual $4.4 million caused an outcry among residents who then battled to have it pruned.
    Apartments were selling at low prices and real estate agents cited the ground rent rise was as a reason.
    BEAUMONT QUARTER
    * Master-planned St Marys Bay precinct.
    * Residents pay $3,129,664.88 annual ground rent.
    * Site is 500m from city waterfront.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/n...ectid=10599963

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  • CJ
    replied
    Originally posted by Austrokiwi View Post
    Not sure I understand you CJ? Are you saying they were charged the land price based on the assumption the land was a building section?
    Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

    A land value of $180k doesn't seem unrealistic. The issue is the price they paid for their units didn't really account for the fact it was leasehold (ie. they paid near freehold prices, so they paid for the land even though they dont own it and have to pay an annual lease payment).

    Leave a comment:


  • Badger
    replied
    Ive restored a fair swag of olde welly houses, from the eastern suburbs to kelburn and thorndon and even though many were very shabby the detailing in them was superb. This from Kunstlers site sums up the tragic error of garbarge building that NZ has also partaken in...




    This monstrosity stirred up a lot of shock and consternation as it rose up on a middling-quality block on the north side of Saratoga Springs. The general complaint was that the building was "too tall," but this was actually the least of its errors. (See photo below.) The problems obtain not from its height but from poor proportioning and design. Basically, what you have here is a crab shack on top of a three story packing crate. Note that they have used a "heavier" (darker color) in the upper floors rather than the base. That makes the building look top-heavy." Notice that the volumes are simply stacked, like pallets in a frozen food warehouse. Notice the "change of materials" gambit on one side of the ground floor. It was supposed to give the base "weight" but it actually looks incongruous (and dumb). Notice the poor quality materials used for the screened-in porch, and especially the flimsy appearance of the columns. The windows are mere holes in the walls. There is absolutely no meaningful or graceful ornament. The neighbors are right about it being an ugly monstrosity, though, and that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. Our knowledge and skill in building has been reduced almost to zero in this culture.




    19th century four-story (inc. tower) house in the eclectic Second Empire style, Saratoga Springs, NY . Whatever else you might say about this exuberant building, notice that no one has ever complained about it being "too tall."


    Have restored a few houses like the 19th century one above. Earliest was 1870 cottage in thorndon and even then it had detailing not found in todays bland mono tacky box of moldy leaks with no eaves and no boxed corners...



    Last edited by Badger; 31-03-2009, 08:22 PM.

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  • Austrokiwi
    replied
    Originally posted by Badger View Post
    visionary urban design?

    Why? whats so visionary about it? looks like any piece of crap built around oriental bay in the past 20 years.

    Does it recycle water? produce any energy? any construction material of a recycled nature in building it ?

    The only visionary thing which Id class in the realm of fantasy land is that it has lots of large inventive numbers in deciding if its actually worth what its worth to rent...what a bland piece of crap...wouldnt pay 100 per week to live there...

    I agree.................Alfred Loos and the modernist Architects are responsible for some of the greatest travesties in taste with respect to Architecture. The art in architecture has been removed; especially with the reliance on CAD and straight lines!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Badger
    replied
    visionary urban design?

    Why? whats so visionary about it? looks like any piece of crap built around oriental bay in the past 20 years.

    Does it recycle water? produce any energy? any construction material of a recycled nature in building it ?

    The only visionary thing which Id class in the realm of fantasy land is that it has lots of large inventive numbers in deciding if its actually worth what its worth to rent...what a bland piece of crap...wouldnt pay 100 per week to live there...

    Leave a comment:


  • Austrokiwi
    replied
    Originally posted by CJ View Post
    that puts it into perspective. The issue is they didn't pay $180k less than if it was freehold (ieg. you look at the apartment and say it is a $300k apartment, take of the value of the land and you offer $120k. These people bought for $300k).

    Not sure I understand you CJ? Are you saying they were charged the land price based on the assumption the land was a building section?

    Leave a comment:


  • CJ
    replied
    Originally posted by captaincrab View Post
    If you cap $12,000 pa at say, 7% then the piece of land occupied by that particular Unit would be worth $180,000. Doesnt sound too bad for property in St Marys Bay.
    that puts it into perspective. The issue is they didn't pay $180k less than if it was freehold (ieg. you look at the apartment and say it is a $300k apartment, take of the value of the land and you offer $120k. These people bought for $300k).

    Leave a comment:

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