New President for APIA

[Sanya]

The information comes from IRD responding to a request under the Official Information Act

https://fyi.org.nz./request/14381/re...20Jan.pdf.html

For the tax year ending 31 March 2019 approximately 290,000 taxpayers were identified as having been involved in residential rental property

https://fyi.org.nz./request/14105/re...livan.pdf.html

In the previous year 300,000 taxpayers were identified as being involved, i.e. a 10,000 YoY reduction.

It will be interesting to see 2020 data when it becomes available.

We don’t know whether the decline in tax payers being involved in rental business translates into a decline in rental property availability.

[donna]

Ha, that made me laugh.
Yes, it can go both ways.

The main imbalance here, is that the the wages of the renter are taxed.
In contrast, with the right structure, the Income of the landlord is not.

Also, the savings of the renter are given a miserable return by the bank,
whereas the landlord is getting about 20% capital gain on at least a million dollars ...

So really, a little bad press should be soothed by the huge financial gain..
Don't you think.

Traditionally a group with a poor public image donates to charity or pays for some public work..
So that's your best path.

Umm too many assumptions about who renters are IMHO

Not all renters are employed and are therefore taxed at source. Not all renters would just have savings in the bank getting a low ROI.

There are renters who would do 'tax planning' in much the same way LLs do and they would pay less or no tax on their income. Plus there are renters who 'choose' to rent for various reasons and they are likely to have other investments.

Just thought I should post this - as there would be a good percentage of very savvy renters who have just made other choices than be a LL.

cheers,

Donna

[McDuck]

Umm too many assumptions about who renters are IMHO ..

Just thought I should post this - as there would be a good percentage of very savvy renters who have just made other choices than be a LL.

cheers,

Donna

Ha.

I'm with you Donna.
It's possible, but it must be a very small percentage.
I've honestly never met any. Ever.

And certainty no one recently who is renting by choice.
Most just work hard and can't get a foothold.

One guy is on 100K and more, but with a young family and student loan.

[Sanya]

[...]

The main imbalance here, is that the the wages of the renter are taxed.
In contrast, with the right structure, the Income of the landlord is not.

The "wages" of a landlord are equally taxed.

The "income" of a landlord, if there is profit, is also taxed.

So the landlord earns a dollar from wages which is taxed.

He takes what's left of the dollar (after tax) and invests in property.

If the property makes money he pays tax again on the profit, often at a higher tax rate.

What am I missing?

[Perry]

McClucky logic.

[McDuck]

What am I missing?

Good question.
An eye?

[Sanya]

[...]
The main imbalance here, is that the the wages of the renter are taxed.
In contrast, with the right structure, the Income of the landlord is not.

The "wages" of a landlord are equally taxed.
The "income" of a landlord, if there is profit, is also taxed.
So the landlord earns a dollar from wages which is taxed.
He takes what's left of the dollar (after tax) and invests in property.
If the property makes money he pays tax again on the profit, often at a higher tax rate.
What am I missing?

Good question.
An eye?

As I expected, that’s not an answer.

To add, from April 1st 2021 some landlords will be paying a new higher income tax rate of 39 cents in the dollar. This arises because landlords need to pay tax on residential rental income on top of tax they pay for salary or wages.

In contrast many renters effectively pay no income tax. This arises because those households receive more in transfers than they pay in tax. In other words, they are net recipients rather than payers under our tax system.

[Sanya]

Source: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...uckland-floods

A renters' union, political party and community organisations are joining forces to demand the Government put in place a rent freeze for Auckland.

It comes after a property investor told RNZ she expects rents will go up in Auckland due to the lower supply of properties available following the devastating flooding that left hundreds of houses uninhabitable and many more needing repairs.


"I think it just needs understanding from landlords and from tenants that that will be the case and we may see some increased rent for that period of time," President of the Auckland Property Investors Association Kristin Sutherland said, adding she's "not in a position" to say whether that's fair or not.

"It's the same in any market when the supply and demand changes. I don't think landlords are out there to make an extra buck.

Gosh, Kristin stepped on a landmine. She should have known better.

[Engineer]

Rent Control: It’s Worse Than Bombing


new delhi—A “romantic conception of socialism” … destroyed Vietnam’s economy in the years after the Vietnam war, Foreign Minister Nguyen Co Thach said Friday.

Addressing a crowded news conference in the Indian capital, Mr. Thach admitted that controls … had artificially encouraged demand and discouraged supply…. House rents had … been kept low … so all the houses in Hanoi had fallen into disrepair, said Mr. Thach.

“The Americans couldn’t destroy Hanoi, but we have destroyed our city by very low rents. We realized it was stupid and that we must change policy,” he said.

—From a news report in Journal of Commerce, quoted in Dan Seligman, “Keeping Up,” Fortune,February 27, 1989.

Sounds exactly the kind of policy the Greens would support. Economically stupid and counterproductive to what they are claiming to be doing.

I have no problem with Kristin pushing back, somebody has to. It’s not like our hopeless media are asking the right questions.

[Perry]

Gosh, Kristin stepped on a landmine. She should have known better.

Indeed - she should've. Residential rental PIs have enough angst directed at them, without that!

[Perry]

I have no problem with Kristin pushing back, somebody has to.

I think that a masterly policy of silence would've been better. Wait for the attack - rather than inviting it.

It’s not like our hopeless media are asking the right questions.

The NZ MSM are gummint stooges and propagandists under the present socio-commie lot.

Will National be any different?

If National has said / says they'll stop that taxpayer handout, MSM might retaliate with minimal pre-election coverage for the gNats.

[donna]

Rent Control: It’s Worse Than Bombing


new delhi—A “romantic conception of socialism” … destroyed Vietnam’s economy in the years after the Vietnam war, Foreign Minister Nguyen Co Thach said Friday.

Addressing a crowded news conference in the Indian capital, Mr. Thach admitted that controls … had artificially encouraged demand and discouraged supply…. House rents had … been kept low … so all the houses in Hanoi had fallen into disrepair, said Mr. Thach.

“The Americans couldn’t destroy Hanoi, but we have destroyed our city by very low rents. We realized it was stupid and that we must change policy,” he said.

—From a news report in Journal of Commerce, quoted in Dan Seligman, “Keeping Up,” Fortune,February 27, 1989.

Sounds exactly the kind of policy the Greens would support. Economically stupid and counterproductive to what they are claiming to be doing.

I have no problem with Kristin pushing back, somebody has to. It’s not like our hopeless media are asking the right questions.

We need National to stop the rot.

cheers

Donna

[Perry]

We need National to stop the rot.

Which particular 'rot' did you have in mind?

[BlueSky]

Shoulda have engaged upstairs

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-floods-rents-will-go-up-property-investors-body-says/Y52DGVASNBDOVHVFCZSEPTYP3M/

[donna]

^^ the rushing through of legislation to look good - but it’s full of unintended consequences. E.g. tenancy agreement - fixed term tenancies.

cheers

Donna