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Attached granny flat & Second dwelling

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  • Attached granny flat & Second dwelling

    Hello
    We are building an attached self contained granny flat for my mother. In our area we are allowed to build a 60sqm second dwelling and I'd like to build a detached second dwelling as a rental. The council are saying that my mother's granny flat counts as the second dwelling because it has a kitchen. The intended use of the granny flat is for a single household so doesn't seem to fit the second dwelling category. I have read many pages of building code etc and I want to approach the council to discuss this again but would like to check in here first to see if anyone has come across this before and can give me some pointers.

    Thank you for your help



  • #2
    I'm sure others have better advice, however.....Its not what it is used for as opposed to what it can be used for. You say second kitchen? What is triggering it? Installation of an oven? Extension of house may allow a second wash up area, even cooking elements but not an oven. Find out what the item that classifies it as a kitchen/2nd dwelling? Can your mother use a plug in cooktop oven instead? Some very good and decent sized ones that are convection and microwave out there. Can cook a roast if need be. Then plug in convection elements. These are great as they are just plugged into a normal socket. Packaging the space as something else may get you around it. There is nothing in the building code that says you can't plug in a benchtop oven/convection elements. This small sacrifice may then open you up for the other residence.

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    • #3
      That is a great idea. I need to find out what is a "kitchen"

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      • #4
        Or just what appliance makes a room into a kitchen?

        Given Rolling Cloud's comment and my loose understanding, I suspect that it's something like a hard-wired stove. However, for quite some time now, even full-sized stoves have had to be plugged in using a special and expensive plug set. Therefore the 'wording' may've changed to reflect that more recent electrical wiring requirement.
        Last edited by Perry; 10-03-2021, 10:37 AM.
        Want a great looking concrete swimming pool in Hawke's Bay? Designer Pools will do the job for you!

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        • #5
          We tried to put a bench and sink into a room my daughter wanted to use as an art studio to do painting in and even though it was an upstairs room with no access except up stairs from the middle of our kitchen/living area they wanted to call it a separate dwelling! We got around it by saying it was a laundry tub not sink.
          I think our mistake was the architect called it a studio on the plans as in “art studio” so that stuck in their head as a term also used for a separate sleepout. Be careful of your terminology. This is in Christchurch.

          Perhaps you can design an extension with bedroom/sitting room bathroom and new laundry with modern kitchen looking laundry bench which can be repurposed as a kitchen bench temporarily. I think having a wired in oven may trigger a reaction though so if she isn’t going to do oven cooking there are lots of plug in appliances that could sit on a “laundry” bench.

          you may need to check out your insurer’s opinion too as if it’s not legal you may not be covered. Any excuse to get out of a claim.
          Last edited by hawkeye; 10-03-2021, 11:44 AM.

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          • #6
            does the granny flat have laundry facilities? This is also required to complete the requirements for a household/residedtial dwelling

            you need to consider the actual definition in the district plan. The issues you face are planning issues

            look at the rules and then apply the definitions to them.

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            • #7
              Interestingly, the council have said it's the sink that makes it a kitchen. So out that goes
              The granny flat doesn't have laundry facilities we were going to put that in the garage

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              • #8
                Would a small stainless steel tub be a sink, I wonder? (Sort-of like hawkeye suggested)
                Want a great looking concrete swimming pool in Hawke's Bay? Designer Pools will do the job for you!

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                • #9
                  House me

                  what council are you with?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Perry View Post
                    even full-sized stoves have had to be plugged in using a special and expensive plug set. Therefore the 'wording' may've changed to reflect that more recent electrical wiring requirement.
                    Nope. This was reversed in about 2008. Hard wired only

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                    • #11
                      You can build a 30sqm sleepout without consent. Design it well, and it will have far more than 30sqm living space. A raised bed platform is not part of the footprint. Neither is any space less than 1.5m in height (a washing machine cupboard, TV recess, fridge space, or sunbed for example). A loft less than 1.5m height can also be added

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by John the builder View Post
                        House me

                        what council are you with?
                        Carterton council

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by crashy View Post
                          You can build a 30sqm sleepout without consent. Design it well, and it will have far more than 30sqm living space. A raised bed platform is not part of the footprint. Neither is any space less than 1.5m in height (a washing machine cupboard, TV recess, fridge space, or sunbed for example). A loft less than 1.5m height can also be added
                          Wow this fantastic information thank you. I have been looking at building some sleepouts. Would you happen to know how many 30sqm sleepouts I can build? I can't find that information anywhere. We have acres so site coverage isn't a problem.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Perry View Post
                            However, for quite some time now, even full-sized stoves have had to be plugged in using a special and expensive plug set. Therefore the 'wording' may've changed to reflect that more recent electrical wiring requirement.

                            Originally posted by crashy View Post
                            Nope. This was reversed in about 2008. Hard wired only.

                            Originally posted by Houseme View Post
                            Wow this fantastic information thank you. I have been looking at building some sleepouts. Would you happen to know how many 30sqm sleepouts I can build? I can't find that information anywhere. We have acres so site coverage isn't a problem.

                            Information from PT Forum members should only be treated as a guide; not gospel.

                            Crashy's view on stove wiring is an example of how easy it is to be misguided.

                            From AS/NZS 3000:2007 page 190:
                            4.7.2 Connection
                            In New Zealand, a free-standing cooking appliance shall be connected to the electrical installation wiring by a socket-outlet or an installation coupler.
                            AFAIK - Replacing an existing hard-wired stove is exempt from that requirement.

                            Take care.
                            Want a great looking concrete swimming pool in Hawke's Bay? Designer Pools will do the job for you!

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                            • #15
                              Perry, do you need me to explain that 2008 is more recent than 2007?

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