Tenant wants a smart meter. Who pays?

[OnTheMove]

However, rents don't go up because house prices go up. There is little to no causal link there at all.
In the case of individual landlords who have bought recently, most are already paying money from their own pocket to meet mortgage repayments, even considering the extreme rents. Rents are almost without exception a cheaper way to live in a house than ownership - so tenants lifestyles are by definition being subsidised. While landlords as a group may be pushing up house prices, you can't even start to argue that individual landlords are doing that. I have more than one landlord on my client list who would struggle to come up with $150 for an unexpected expense.

I totally agree. Im suggesting a lot do not understand this when buying IPs. And for me if you cannot afford $150 you should not be buying the IP. That sounds way to easily put in receivership should economies change wind and direction from 5 knots to 30 in a Strong southerly :-).

IMO you are better off in educating yourself on the share market until you can afford an IP when $150 is a drop in the bath, ie 50% depending on how many other obligations you have.

I actually am finding my NZ PPOR far cheaper than the rent we were paying for a 2 bedroom sh!t box with party animal neighbours 4 nights a week and mouldy carpet underlay. Our interest only and all rates and essentials works out $50pw cheaper to buy, and it just got cheaper (ugggh timing).

Who knows how long we will be in level 4 isolation and the impact on property prices, if people lose 30-40% that is 30-40% more the banks will be asking of rental properties, thats why Im only prepared to buy knowing if the sky should fall down, I can still afford it. Minimum deposit is not the way to go IMO and never was regardless of this virus.

I agree with most of your reply, I just feel a lot of people who jumped on the IP thing, thinking it is a sure bet are just a can short of a six pack.

Not only is it cheaper, but I have a 10yo master built, architect designed and project managed house, with a view of the ocean on one side and a gorgeous big pohutukawa on the other with a gorgeous lawn and large single level decking, a $90k brand new kitchen (electric rubbish drawers are more hand than I use to think), I get Tuis and Kereru and faintails making beautiful NZ noises all day, we have the higher end HRV with heating and cooling, Gas rennai Fire place, gas cooking (missed this a lot), gas water, double glazing everywhere, much faster fibre due to less WIFI congestion (20+ vs 3-4 makes a big difference), 2yo quality carpet court carpet lush stuff in the bedrooms etc, lovely hardwood in the cooking/dining areas, central air cond (split heat/cold etc). All for $50 less per week.

I did however negotiate 40% off the GF (estimated ~15-20% MV) which of course made a difference, but if you are at the stage of buying IPs you should know how to buy homes for much less than asking price).

[Keys]

The comic has died.

The stand up comic who makes a living has died and gone the way of the dinosaurs.

Why?

Because "someone" was offended.

[jimO]

I had taken the racist and offensive comment to be a sardonic reference to the actions of Labour or National or whoever who threw up a whole bunch of Chinese names as 'foreign buyers' a couple years back. Makes it a little less racist and a little less offensive on the basis that it was in jest.

it was that mental giant Phil Stoner Twyford back when he was in opposition and not actually doing anything constructive, looks like not much has changed

[PC]

Dear offenderatti - it's a quote from our glorious leaders.
Are you saying those in power are racist?

[Anthonyacat]

I had taken the racist and offensive comment to be a sardonic reference to the actions of Labour or National or whoever who threw up a whole bunch of Chinese names as 'foreign buyers' a couple years back. Makes it a little less racist and a little less offensive on the basis that it was in jest.

[erinak]

"Maybe the foreign ones with Chinky sounding names are to blame?"

That is sooooo judgemental - ill-founded and racist, PC.

Be very careful and ditch the attitude pal.

[learner]

Maybe the foreign ones with Chinky sounding names are to blame?

Hello PC

In my opinion, you should not be using derogatory terms to refer to people from other countries, as you have done above. The proper term would be "with Chinese sounding names".

[Anthonyacat]

Domestic investors are a tiny fraction of the market and have to buy as cheap as possible - so don't push up house prices.

Stats/source/reference please? I've not seen anything on a split of domestic vs foreign investors. Would love to see these numbers - and how much they've changed since the foreign buyer ban.

[PC]

The "reforms" have removed all the tax subsidies for renters. No depreciation. Removal of -ve gearing. etc.
Plus greatly increased compliance costs.
All these costs get passed on. Much more to come. So hope you are enjoying the extreme rents!

Domestic investors are a tiny fraction of the market and have to buy as cheap as possible - so don't push up house prices.
Maybe the foreign ones with Chinky sounding names are to blame?

[Anthonyacat]

Im pretty tired of moaning land lords on here, when tenants are paying extreme rents for ridiculously priced property thanks to investors doing all the work in pushing up the prices of housing in NZ like sheep

Setting aside the fact that no one can possibly know whether it's investors pushing up house prices - I personally don't feel it is, but lets run with that assumption.

I agree rents are extreme, and property prices are ridiculous, at least by historical terms. However, rents don't go up because house prices go up. There is little to no causal link there at all. Rents go up because the property becomes more desirable - that could be because it is well maintained and lovely in a gentrifying neighbourhood, or it could be because there aren't enough houses to go around so people are unhappily willing to fork out 50%+ of their weekly income to live in a poorly maintained hovel - still more desirable than living on the streets or shared accommodations. These same underlying reasons cause house prices to rise.

In the case of individual landlords who have bought recently, most are already paying money from their own pocket to meet mortgage repayments, even considering the extreme rents. Rents are almost without exception a cheaper way to live in a house than ownership - so tenants lifestyles are by definition being subsidised. While landlords as a group may be pushing up house prices, you can't even start to argue that individual landlords are doing that. I have more than one landlord on my client list who would struggle to come up with $150 for an unexpected expense.

[Learning]

Im pretty tired of moaning land lords on here... then complaining about tenants not forking out $150 for our utilities...

Your argument is fair and valid, however the other perspective, tenant requests free upgrade of existing service from LL so tenant can save a few dollars each month. Where does is end? A new alarm system so tenant saves a few bucks on contents insurance? Install double glazing? Free wifi? Fair and reasonable upgrades for property and tenant... Is there a line in your world where the benefits should be paid for by the beneficiarie? If only an LL's endless pockets were so full of dollars.

[OnTheMove]

If it’s a permanent fixture the tenant won’t take with them and it’s only $150 I would pay for it and mention it as a selling point for subsequent tenants. You’ve made the property marginally more attractive and got goodwill for your current tenant for a tiny sum.

Well said Annie. I suspect you are not the sort to chop a tiny 1 bedroom unit into 2 bedrooms and have half a window each room thus technically providing a 2.5x2.5m room a window? lol

Im pretty tired of moaning land lords on here, when tenants are paying extreme rents for ridiculously priced property thanks to investors doing all the work in pushing up the prices of housing in NZ like sheep, then complaining about tenants not forking out $150 for our utilities. Seriously, the goal of being a landlord isnt to do be a scrooge and make tenants lives horrible.

A
Power companies are always vying so its in their best interest to provide free a service that will ultimately save them in paying a real human to go read the meter!

Truth. It seems Absurd to me utility companies wanting anybody to pay for a smart meter when it is less people they have to employ. So whilst I think if its genuine, asking the tenant to pay is really desperate (as kind as I could put it) imo, I do not believe that the utility company would be saying it must be installed and it has to be paid for, because that is not the truth. Keeping in mind the tenant can read it and send the reading in themselves. Which I suggest as often the "Guess" pricing if left for 6+ months can leave a tenant with a massive bill one month.

[OnTheMove]

Thats getting greedy expecting tenant to pay for a utility installation cost.

BUT, I worked in the pioneering of smart metering, wrote some of the initial coding to get reporting live and managed projects on the networking side of things in a much larger market in Aus. There isnt a big cost so I personally think the utilities could be making money off something that saves them money (jobs).

And in saying that, if the utility has said they want to install a smart meter, its usually free. The only time it costs is if you request one. USUALLY.

[Nic D]

Have you thought about going halves with your tenants?

Then both parties would get the benefits mentioned in the various posts above, but at a reduced cost to both of you.


Also, our family has moved house recently into a home without a smart meter. We want one so we can switch to kiwi electric who offers an hour free power per day which will give us monthly saving. However they don't instal them so we have to ask our current provider to do that, and that's where the cost arises. So we're going to pay for it ourselves then switch providers.

Looks like that's the same situation your tenants might be in .... that the only way for them to get a smart meter is to pay for it.

[klauster]

On consumer's request the party who has a contract with the power company pays, otherwise the power company.